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  1. #16
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    It's a variant cover boost. There's a really good reason publishers are fond of those.

    Anyway, this graph tells us absolutely nothing, it is meaningles without the context of how other books did over the sam period of time.
    Respectfully disagree.

    Having other books to compare to would add another layer of understanding, but to say the graph says nothing is obviously wrong. There is a discernible pattern which repeats itself along the entire scope of the timeline.

    Since issue number 7, sales have dropped by an average of about 1000 per month.

    And for comparison to Gail's run...

    07/2008: Wonder Woman #22 -- 36,514

    That means book sales are down by about 500 issues - Rob says digital sales are over 2000 so that means it is still ahead, but the difference is fractional...in the order of 5%.
    Last edited by brettc1; 07-23-2013 at 03:36 AM.
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  2. #17
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Respectfully disagree.

    Having other books to compare to would add another layer of understanding, but to say the graph says nothing is obviously wrong. There is a discernible pattern which repeats itself along the entire scope of the timeline.

    Since issue number 7, sales have dropped by an average of about 1000 per month.

    If this follows the same pattern as Gail's run, I predict will be a big drop sometime in the next three of months - in the order of between 1500 and 2500 readers, and then a consistent slide down to the mid 25K zone.
    Well, no. Because there's no Gail Simone's run graph to compare it to either. You're using information that the OP did not include. On its own, the graph means nothing.

    IIRC Gail also started losing readers because editorial asked her to extend the Genocide/Manazons arc way beyond it's intended length, and there really wasn't enough story in it to do that. This isn't an issue Azz has to deal with as far as we know.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  3. #18
    The Mad Artist RMAN63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    It's a variant cover boost. There's a really good reason publishers are fond of those.

    Anyway, this graph tells us absolutely nothing, it is meaningles without the context of how other books did over the sam period of time.
    I have another chart that shows the Placement among other books. I will work from that one tonight

    Actually, I have it in my photo box here it is.



    The graph indicates the books placement above other books. Starting from left to right the lower the number the better the placement

    The steady decline clearly began with number seven
    Last edited by RMAN63; 07-23-2013 at 03:58 AM.

  4. #19
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Well, no. Because there's no Gail Simone's run graph to compare it to either. You're using information that the OP did not include. On its own, the graph means nothing.

    IIRC Gail also started losing readers because editorial asked her to extend the Genocide/Manazons arc way beyond it's intended length, and there really wasn't enough story in it to do that. This isn't an issue Azz has to deal with as far as we know.
    On its own the graph means the book is losing sales at about 1000 a month.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
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  5. #20
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_Olivera View Post
    I have another chart that shows the Placement among other books. I will work from that one tonight

    Actually, I have it in my photo box here it is.



    The graph indicates the books placement above other books. Starting from left to right the lower the number the better the placement

    The steady decline clearly began with number seven
    I'm stunned.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
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  6. #21
    The Mad Artist RMAN63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    I'm stunned.
    Of course we had AVX to contend with around that time, but it never recovered. While placement is somewhat tied to sales it does give an additional perspective.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_Olivera View Post
    Of course we had AVX to contend with around that time, but it never recovered. While placement is somewhat tied to sales it does give an additional perspective.
    It mostly tells us that new books came on the market, and their initial sales were higher than Wonder Woman's sales at the time.

    For example, Wonder Woman was ranked 22 in June, and here are the books that ranked 51-61. Note that seven of them are low-numbered:

    51 Uncanny X-Force 7 $3.99 Marvel 40,380
    52 Batgirl 21 $2.99 DC 40,252
    53 Wolverine and X-Men 32 $3.99 Marvel 39,790
    54 East of West 3* $3.50 Image 39,441
    55 Flash 21 $2.99 DC 38,848
    56 Cable and X-Force 9 $3.99 Marvel 38,414
    57 Red Lanterns 21 $2.99 DC 37,312
    58 Fantastic Four 9 $2.99 Marvel 37,071
    59 Larfleeze 1 $2.99 DC 36,638
    60 Nova 5 $3.99 Marvel 36,545
    61 Cable and X-Force 10 $3.99 Marvel 36,104

    Many of these books are dropping faster than Wonder Woman but haven't been out as long, and thus haven't been dropping as long. If you compare it to books that started at the same time, it's change in rank won't be as dramatic, and most of the New 52 books that passed are books that (unlike Wonder Woman) were returnable early on and thus were reported by Diamond at about 10 lower than their actual performance. Even books that started at the same time as Wonder Woman and are still above it, like Flash, aren't necessarily dropping slower; they're just dropping from a higher point.
    Last edited by slvn; 07-23-2013 at 05:00 AM.

  8. #23
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    It mostly tells us that new books came on the market, and their initial sales were higher than Wonder Woman's sales at the time.

    For example, Wonder Woman was ranked 22 in June, and here are the books that ranked 51-61. Note that seven of them are low-numbered:

    51 Uncanny X-Force 7 $3.99 Marvel 40,380
    52 Batgirl 21 $2.99 DC 40,252
    53 Wolverine and X-Men 32 $3.99 Marvel 39,790
    54 East of West 3* $3.50 Image 39,441
    55 Flash 21 $2.99 DC 38,848
    56 Cable and X-Force 9 $3.99 Marvel 38,414
    57 Red Lanterns 21 $2.99 DC 37,312
    58 Fantastic Four 9 $2.99 Marvel 37,071
    59 Larfleeze 1 $2.99 DC 36,638
    60 Nova 5 $3.99 Marvel 36,545
    61 Cable and X-Force 10 $3.99 Marvel 36,104

    Many of these books are dropping faster than Wonder Woman but haven't been out as long, and thus haven't been dropping as long. If you compare it to books that started at the same time, it's change in rank won't be as dramatic, and most of the New 52 books that passed are books that (unlike Wonder Woman) were returnable early on and thus were reported by Diamond at about 10 lower than their actual performance. Even books that started at the same time as Wonder Woman and are still above it, like Flash, aren't necessarily dropping slower; they're just dropping from a higher point.
    Is the book selling a lot better than its last run or not?
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
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  9. #24
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_Olivera View Post
    I have another chart that shows the Placement among other books.
    What exactly do you mean by plavement among other books? Sales ranking? That's not really indicative of anything.
    That tells you not a lot. It tells you mostly that in a month that the ranking went down, many event comics came out.
    Sales on a book can go up at the same time the ranking goes down.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    On its own the graph means the book is losing sales at about 1000 a month.
    Yes.
    When put into context, all books are losing sales without events or gimmicks to boost them up, and that Azz's Wonder Woman is losing fewer sales than most books.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Is the book selling a lot better than its last run or not?
    June 2001 WONDER WOMAN #171 31,074
    December 2001 WONDER WOMAN #177 29,813
    June 2002 WONDER WOMAN #182 25,225
    November 2002 WONDER WOMAN #187 24,013
    June 2003 WONDER WOMAN #194 25,347
    December 2003 WONDER WOMAN #199 29,224
    June 2004 WONDER WOMAN #205 29,233
    December 2004 WONDER WOMAN #211 24,828
    June 2005 WONDER WOMAN #217 30,022
    December 2005 WONDER WOMAN #224 47,224 (Infinite Crisis tie-in)

    June 2006 WONDER WOMAN #1* 132,580 (massively overhyped relaunch by hot new writer)
    November 2006 WONDER WOMAN #3 76,998 (well, that went down a lot in two issues)
    June 2007 WONDER WOMAN #10 54,472 (Amazons Attack tie-in)
    December 2007 WONDER WOMAN #15 44,628
    June 2008 WONDER WOMAN #21 37,086
    December 2008 WONDER WOMAN #27 32,322
    June 2009 WONDER WOMAN #33 32,755
    December 2009 WONDER WOMAN #39 26,152
    June 2010 WONDER WOMAN #600 53,525 (anniversary issue)
    December 2010 WONDER WOMAN #605 35,495
    June 2011 WONDER WOMAN #611 30,874
    June 2011 WONDER WOMAN #612 30,690

    September 2011 WONDER WOMAN #1 76,214
    December 2011 WONDER WOMAN #4 57,675 (New 52)
    June 2012 WONDER WOMAN #10 47,229
    December 2012 WONDER WOMAN #15 41,641
    June 2013 WONDER WOMAN #21 35,999

    It seems to manage to hold onto it's relaunch boost a lot longer than the previous run.
    Last edited by carabas; 07-23-2013 at 05:21 AM.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  12. #27
    The Mad Artist RMAN63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    What exactly do you mean by plavement among other books? Sales ranking? That's not really indicative of anything.
    That tells you not a lot. It tells you mostly that in a month that the ranking went down, many event comics came out.
    Sales on a book can go up at the same time the ranking goes down.
    My verbiage could use tweaking. "Placement AMONG other books" is prob a better statement.

    One can do a lot with graphs, I just need the data to plug in. Feeding all the books into it can yield a visually confusing graph but if u can suggest more angles I can work it out provided I have the info

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Is the book selling a lot better than its last run or not?
    You mean "volume" rather than "run," right? I don't think you're asking for a comparison to Odyssey. And while it's not selling much better than Gael's run if you compare like issue number to like issue number, it is selling much better than her run if you compare, for example, his first issue to her first issue, or his sixth issue to her sixth issue--or if you compare the total sales of his first 22 issues to the total sales of her first 22 issues. (Of course, each method of comparison is unfair in its own way.)

    If you do mean "volume," then no,volume 4 is not selling much better than volume 3. We've know that since issue 1, haven't we? Issue one of v3 had sold significantly more than issue one of volume 4 sold. Volume 4's rate of decline has been slower, so it's selling about the same as v3 now (a little less if you don't count digital, and presumably a little more if you do).

    Overall, this has been one of the 2 two-year periods since the late nineties during which the book has consistently sold over 35k. In terms of total sales, it' probably the second-best 21-issue stretch since the mid or early nineties (with the beginning of volume 3 being first). It's not world-shaking, but it's not bad. If the next run keeps what Azz has done but finds ways to welcome lost readers back, it may do even better.
    Last edited by slvn; 07-23-2013 at 11:55 AM.

  14. #29
    Darkseid's Lawyer MelDyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    ...It's not world-shaking, but it's not bad. If the next run keeps what Azz has done but finds ways to welcome lost readers back, it may do even better.
    More action. More structure (setting, supporting cast, etcetera). Though it makes me uneasy, return the Amazons and Paradise Island, ..if only in some limited capacity. More laughs. More FUN!

    More ZOLA! Rob's chart shows that the issues, most centered around the Diana-Zola dynamic, have been the most successful, ..with Issues #1 and #2. Keep in mind that we don't see the Amazons, until Issue #3, and the deeper we get into the world of the gods, the less interaction we've seen between Diana and Zola, ..AND we see a sharper deline in book sales. We want more WONDY and ZOLA leaping into wild, exotic adventures in strange places!

    Less quirky Greek gods, Mr. Azzarello.

    Or-rrr...bring back man-crazy, Etta Candy as a comedic 'Girl with the Dragon Tattoo'. A really BIG tattoo.
    "I collect beings like him and cut them open--so I can hold in my hand what makes them tick."
    Cassandra on Orion of the New Gods (Wonder Woman #26)

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MelDyer View Post
    More ZOLA! Rob's chart shows that the issues, most centered around the Diana-Zola dynamic, have been the most successful, ..with Issues #1 and #2.
    Issues 1 and 2 sold best because they were issues 1 and 2. As with any comic, more people try it out than stick with it over the long haul. And speculators and completists were interested in the first issues even if they're not interested in Wonder Woman.

    I'm all for more Zola, but you can't infer anything about how the content of a specific issue went over by looking at the number of orders placed with Diamond by stores (which is what those charts show). Those orders are placed months before anyone--even the LCS personnel placing the orders with Diamond--have seen the content of the issues.

    Besides, those quirky gods (specifically, Apollo and Hermes) were as prominent in issue 1 as Zola was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas
    Quote Originally Posted by Power Guy
    Not even 2 years later and the book isn't even selling half as well as issue #2.
    Yes. And this is true for every other book DC puts out as well, if you bother to research this.
    Gail Simone's issue 21 of Wonder Woman volume 3 sold closer to 35% of that volume's #1.
    Last edited by slvn; 07-23-2013 at 11:58 AM.

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