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  1. #61

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    Wow. Superman fans can really be insecure manchildren sometimes. It's just a quote from an objectively brilliant comic by a visionary. Grow up.

  2. #62
    Perhaps, probably not !Pharozonk!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'dax View Post
    The prevalence of Batman fanwankery among fans and writers is sickening.
    Agreed and cosigned. I love Batman as much as the next guy, but the Batgod that is being fed to the public makes me sick. That also applies to the Marvel counterpart Iron Man.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by XanatosVanBadass View Post
    Wow. Superman fans can really be insecure manchildren sometimes. It's just a quote from an objectively brilliant comic by a visionary. Grow up.
    It's a quote from a comic that I despise, created by a far-right nutjob who hates Superman.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
    It's a quote from a comic that I despise, created by a far-right nutjob who hates Superman.
    You also forgot misogynistic and racist.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
    It's a quote from a comic that I despise, created by a far-right nutjob who hates Superman.
    You having awful taste is nothing new, kid. And you bringing politics into this shows off your limited argumentative skills. You may not like FM, but he's objectively more influential than your precious Grant Morrison (and I'm actually a fan of Morrison's work).

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncanny Poster View Post
    Agreed and cosigned. I love Batman as much as the next guy, but the Batgod that is being fed to the public makes me sick. That also applies to the Marvel counterpart Iron Man.
    I completely understand this. I like Batman when he is part of a playground of quasi-Jungian archetypes, or portrayed as a Quixotic wish of a traumatized child but any other way and I really dislike him. More than any other character he's one that makes me wish there wasn't a shared universe.

    I haven't read much Marvel, but the movie Iron Man 2 really disturbed me with the way it really refused to question Tony Stark's rightfulness. Left a terrible taste in my mouth. Why I didn't see Iron Man 3.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncanny Poster View Post
    You also forgot misogynistic and racist.
    Those as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by XanatosVanBadass View Post
    You having awful taste is nothing new, kid. And you bringing politics into this shows off your limited argumentative skills. You may not like FM, but he's objectively more influential than your precious Grant Morrison (and I'm actually a fan of Morrison's work).
    Whatever. My taste is based on respecting the character's creators and main guiding lights, and I'll take Jack Kirby and Will Eisner over Frank Miller any day of the week. Miller is 20 plus years past his prime and his prime was never all that. He's never written anything as beautiful as All-Star Superman.

    Now I will never argue that his Batman was not influential and successful. I hate his Batman but I can't pretend it didn't sell. I'm more a fan of the O'Neil type Batman myself, but I know people love how Miller had Batman make every other character he ran into look like shit. But I don't like characters who are built up by tearing other characters down. That's a good bit of why I think Wolverine sucks.

    Anyway, your taste sucks. And I'm sending your Miller-worshipping self to the Phantom Zone, AKA my ignore list.
    Last edited by Kurosawa; 07-21-2013 at 09:07 PM.
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  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
    Those as well.



    Whatever. My taste is based on respecting the character's creators and main guiding lights, and I'll take Jack Kirby and Will Eisner over Frank Miller any day of the week. Miller is 20 plus years past his prime and his prime was never all that. He's never written anything as beautiful as All-Star Superman.

    Now I will never argue that his Batman was not influential and successful. I hate his Batman but I can't pretend it didn't sell. I'm more a fan of the O'Neil type Batman myself, but I know people love how Miller had Batman make every other character he ran into look like shit. But I don't like characters who are built up by tearing other characters down. That's a good bit of why I think Wolverine sucks.

    Anyway, your taste sucks. And I'm sending your Miller-worshipping self to the Phantom Zone, AKA my ignore list.
    So, that's what you do when you have a weak argument? You ignore them? I suppose labeling you as a manchild was more accurate than I thought.

  9. #69
    Perhaps, probably not !Pharozonk!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XanatosVanBadass View Post
    You having awful taste is nothing new, kid. And you bringing politics into this shows off your limited argumentative skills. You may not like FM, but he's objectively more influential than your precious Grant Morrison (and I'm actually a fan of Morrison's work).
    I don't particularly care for either Frank Miller or Grant Morrison. However, you can't deny the few negative effects his work in the 80's had on comics. His "grim and gritty" style he brought to both his Daredevil and Batman work led to a lot of the dark stories of the 90's that ultimately were shit. He made comic writers focus on marketing stories to adults instead of kids, which is why so few books are actually kid friendly these days.
    Last edited by !Pharozonk!; 07-21-2013 at 09:32 PM.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncanny Poster View Post
    I don't particularly care for either Frank Miller or Grant Morrison. However, you can't deny the few negative effects his work in the 80's had on comics. His "grim and gritty" style he brought to both his Daredevil and Batman work led to a lot of the dark stories of the 90's that ultimately were shit. He made comic writers focus on marketing stories to adults instead of kids, which is why so few books are actually kid friendly these days.
    Most of the , "negative effects," you're bringing up can easily be attributed to lesser writers trying to imitate what Miller and Moore did (I love how Alan Moore is always left out of these discussions). Why is it the fault of those who created such brilliant, definitive works?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by XanatosVanBadass View Post
    Most of the , "negative effects," you're bringing up can easily be attributed to lesser writers trying to imitate what Miller and Moore did (I love how Alan Moore is always left out of these discussions). Why is it the fault of those who created such brilliant, definitive works?
    Oh Alan Moore is just as guilty,don't get me wrong. It's not necessarily their fault, but they did inspire a really negative trend in the industry that does bug me.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by XanatosVanBadass View Post
    Wow. Superman fans can really be insecure manchildren sometimes. It's just a quote from an objectively brilliant comic by a visionary. Grow up.
    Becoz most superman fans want to see a movie about superman and his supporting character more then just jump into superman and batman... Especially they take the quote from batman comics NOT from superman comics.

    If you call this a triump from DC or WB, you must not realised that they don,t gave you something new... This superman batman is old news. They role it before and role it again now, hoping we all be cherish and forget that WB actually doesn,t have DC cinematic universe as strong as marvel did yet.

    Diane Nelson said they want to do WW but didn,t find any way yet. She tricky she said. Meh! Then Aquaman in the bottom of 5 list below the metal men? Cmon.....

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by XanatosVanBadass View Post
    So, that's what you do when you have a weak argument? You ignore them? I suppose labeling you as a manchild was more accurate than I thought.
    I put people on ignore when they make it personal.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncanny Poster View Post
    Oh Alan Moore is just as guilty,don't get me wrong. It's not necessarily their fault, but they did inspire a really negative trend in the industry that does bug me.
    Yeah, Moore has actually owned up to his part in making comics what they now are and he says he regrets it. What Moore says he hoped is his work would influence people to try different things, not to copy what he did.

    Of course like all businesses, comics are a copycat business, but they have been stuck in this grim and gritty rut since the 80's. 25+ years of the same thing is boring and it's not shocking anymore either.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'dax View Post
    The prevalence of Batman fanwankery among fans and writers is sickening.
    God, I could puke and everyone but them suffers for it.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiptupjr94 View Post
    *facepalm* Guys, first of all, it's a quote from one of the most revered comic stories of all time. Yes, how surprising that they'd use it. Secondly, just because you're Superman fans and you're too insecure to accept the fact that MAYBE Superman doesn't win every single fight he's in, doesn't mean everyone else has to agree with you. Batman does canonically have a propensity for having plans to take down Superman and other super heroes if the need ever arises (which it pretty much never has.) Superman isn't automatically better than Batman "just because." And this has nothing to do with Nolan's films, either.

    Snark88, you're the same one who posted that thread in the Batman forum awhile back complaining about how butthurt you were that some people thought Batman might be able to beat Superman. Figures.
    It's not that Superman has to win every fight, but him being Batman's bitch is old. Batman is a mortal, an asshole and most of all mentally ill. Superman is the perfect representation of a altruistic hero who doesn't have to be a jerk to be taken seriously.

    You say Superman isn't automatically better than Batman, but go to lengths to put Superman down to push up Batman. So Batman can be automatically better than Superman just because he has no powers or "prep time" or some garbage like that.

    The only way they can do that it by dumbing down Superman and all the other heroes to make Batman look good. Batman must look good at all costs, and showing how outclassed he is by another character just cannot be done.

    I do find it ironic that the Arkham games had to give him X-Ray vision and borderline flight. Penis envy much?

    Quote Originally Posted by 'dax View Post
    The prevalence of Batman fanwankery among fans and writers is sickening.
    It is. Miller. Dini. Timm. Nolan. O'Neal bitches about Superman at every turn.

    Anyone who loves Superman is never given the chance to do anything. Mark Waid would sell himself on the street to write Superman. Blackballed. Elliot S! Maggin, who I consider the equivalent of Denny O'Neal in terms of where they took their respective characters (Superman and Batman), was passed over for editor of the Superman books when Schwartz retired.

    Odd how I see more celebrities show their love for Superman than Batman.

    Quote Originally Posted by XanatosVanBadass View Post
    Wow. Superman fans can really be insecure manchildren sometimes. It's just a quote from an objectively brilliant comic by a visionary. Grow up.
    Batgod fans will cling to the idea that Batman is the greatest character with the same or greater degree of insecurity. Frank Miller maybe was brilliant-ish, but now he's crazy and cannot write anything without whores. Lots of whores.

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