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  1. #1

    Default Wonder Woman: Forced much?

    I'm not the biggest fan of her, yeah, but I've definitely dabbled in her lore Pre-Crisis & New 52. And every time I read anything with her, I can't help but think.. "Is she just being pushed on everyone since she's the first REAL woman figure-head for comics?"

    I dunno guys. I really just don't know. Please tell me your opinions so I can finally shine some light on this matter.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Allen View Post
    I'm not the biggest fan of her, yeah, but I've definitely dabbled in her lore Pre-Crisis & New 52. And every time I read anything with her, I can't help but think.. "Is she just being pushed on everyone since she's the first REAL woman figure-head for comics?"

    I dunno guys. I really just don't know. Please tell me your opinions so I can finally shine some light on this matter.
    What do you mean by 'being pushed on everyone'? - could you clarify what you mean?

    Wonder Woman is one of the first women superheroes in comics when the industry was and is still dominated by male superheroes and as such as the first she has a special place in the history of comic.

    Currently she stars in her own title; a team title (justice league) and makes various guest appearances in other comics but most of the big 3 do that and have always done that.

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    Troll sense tingling.

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    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Some stories can seem forced, as in laden with subtext. But I think the character stands on her own. After all, you can't force people to buy a book for 25 years while many other titles struggle to go past five. Especially female led ones.

    A lot of folks would say that for a long time the character forced on the wider DCU was Batman.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
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    I'd say all other members of the JL sound forced (especially Aquaman, as of lately).
    I mean, how many times has Superman/Batman/GL/Flash saved the day already?
    How about making room for OTHER heroes to shine through?

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    I too am little confused about what you mean when you say she's being "forced" or "pushed on everyone". If you mean that you think the character is overexposed, then I have to disagree. She's in one on-going and in the Justice League. She occasionally does guest appearances or crossovers, but that's nothing compared to Batman, Spiderman or Wolverine.

    If you mean in a more general cultural sense, like you tried the comic, but don't see why she's so important, well..that's actually a more interesting question. Yes, she is the first female superhero, but there's more to it than that. I mean, Capt America wasn't technically the first patriotic hero, but he's the one that connected with folks. There's a western hero named Lobo who was the first black hero to star in a title named after himself, but the character people hold in reverence is T'Challa.

    Diana is important because she's one of the few golden age heroes to last beyond that era and become not just a superhero icon, but also also a cultural icon. She along with Bats and Supes are the only superheroes to be continuously published throughout the post war years when cape comics weren't selling big. Her name also came to symbolize ideas beyond just comic book superheroics. If you call Midge at real estate office or Patty on the Basketball court or Joan in the PTA a "Wonder Woman" everyone knows what you're suggesting. You're not saying that she can lift a tank over her head or that she knows a lot about greek myths, you're saying that she's smart and independent. That she can take one several tasks at once and excel at them.

    It's cool if you think the character is boring or the comic isn't good or whatever. There's no law that says you have to like every hero or buy each comic. We can talk about how good or bad various WW comics or TV show depictions have been, but it's the IDEA of Wonder Woman that's lasted and that's why she's relevant.

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    The OP's question kinda reminded me of this video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0-Du9R63GA
    And here's a reply...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMUc12aBTuQ

    These are from a couple of years ago, but I think they're still relevant.

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    How can Wonder Woman be forced on to the readers compared to the number of Superman and Batman stories and merchandise that's out there?

    The last animated film certainly forced the concept on to us, but it the other works certainly haven't.

  9. #9
    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
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    I think that the consensus among pretty much everybody who comes here is probably going to be that Wonder Woman doesn't get nearly as much screen time as she should for one of DC's foundational characters, and tends to be either underused or jobbed in most universe-wide events in which she's included at all. We disagree on many things here, but probably not this.
    Superhero comic books only become art to the extent that their banal, unrealistic fantasy and garish styles go too far and become interesting. Attempts to ground them in reality can only ruin them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveGus View Post
    I think that the consensus among pretty much everybody who comes here is probably going to be that Wonder Woman doesn't get nearly as much screen time as she should for one of DC's foundational characters, and tends to be either underused or jobbed in most universe-wide events in which she's included at all. We disagree on many things here, but probably not this.
    Yes--I agree.

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    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    Yes--I agree.
    And in Gehenna, there was freezing rain for the space of half an hour.
    Superhero comic books only become art to the extent that their banal, unrealistic fantasy and garish styles go too far and become interesting. Attempts to ground them in reality can only ruin them.

  12. #12
    Guardian of Love Sailor Moon's Avatar
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    I think at this point the dead horse being beaten by this kind of question and topic is nothing but little pieces of beef in the ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Allen View Post
    I'm not the biggest fan of her, yeah, but I've definitely dabbled in her lore Pre-Crisis & New 52. And every time I read anything with her, I can't help but think.. "Is she just being pushed on everyone since she's the first REAL woman figure-head for comics?"

    I dunno guys. I really just don't know. Please tell me your opinions so I can finally shine some light on this matter.
    Would you feel Batman was forced on you if you were not that big a fan of him? How about Superman? Wolverine?
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  14. #14
    Professor of Power DrCosmic's Avatar
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    I actually understand the OP.

    Wonder Woman is a great character, with a very important place in history... but she's often put in the same sentence with Superman and Batman. Characters in the universe treat her as though she is on their level, as though she has half as many incredible feats to her name as they do. She does not. They treat her as though she has had as wide an impact on the Universe as Superman and Batman has, she has not. They then put her in something called the Trinity as though these three characters are somehow co-equal.

    Obviously Superman and Batman are not only insanely more popular, and dramatically more well developed characters, but they've had an incredible effect not only on the comics world, but on the real world. They too have an important place in history, but they have an important place in the present, and everywhere inbetween - whether or not they are marketed as the Trinity they would still be seen as the incredible permeating archetypes that they are. No one wants to see Batman and Superman because they're part of the Trinity... they want to see them because they're all around incredible characters.

    But Wonder Woman is treated, in-universe, like she has had this Superman/Batman-level effect on the universe, that we have not seen her have. That's why she sometimes comes off as forced. What has Wonder Woman *done* for real? "Be quiet, Wonder Woman's awesome." That's forced. Instead of waiting for fans to clamor for her, she's just put up there anyway. Try to remove Superman or Batman from the Trinity, or dissolve it, not only will the entire comicsphere erupt in madness, but Superman and Batman will not have their popularity affected in the slightest. Do that for Wonder Woman, and her fans will be up in arms... and if anything, her sales will go down, as she no longer has the position that she derives so much of her relevance and importance from.

    The problem, as pointed out in the youtube response to the "Iconic or Not" Video is not just that comics fans are a little sexist... but that the entire industry (and attached industries) are sexist. Few want to publish Wonder Woman, so she has had few TPBs to ever come out. This is where the Trinity title can come back to bite her, because she doesn't sell like the rest of the Trinity people may give up on building her up the old fashioned way.

    The source of the problem? Marston's vision was too progressive, and far more political than the elemental things that Superman and Batman have become. Not only did Wonder Woman never make the transition, but she abandoned her actual roots so that every writer is starting, essentially from scratch, making a brand new character with the same name, and no one is recapturing what made her an actual credible member of the Trinity back in the 40s and 50s (when Robin was the third member of the Trinity actually).

    The only way to fix this 'unfair' treatment and analysis of Wonder Woman is to put her through what Batman and Superman have been through over the past 70+ years... a slow build up and development of the character and the world's perception of her. It can be done a bit quicker, but the only way to stop Wonder Woman from being forced, as she is at times, is to stop treating her like a member of the Trinity and work the franchise so that people will expect/assume/presume and otherwise demand she is one of the greatest superheroes ever. Like Batman and Superman. But until then, until she has three high selling titles in the Wonder Family, until her merchandizing rivals Superman and Batmans, it might be best to downplay this Trinity thing and working on earning that title, rather than pointing to events from last millenia for its justification.
    formerly gammaranger

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    Power Corrupts Jabare's Avatar
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