View Poll Results: Who was the best leader of the Avengers?

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  • Captain America (Steven Rogers)

    48 44.44%
  • Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers)

    6 5.56%
  • Havok

    2 1.85%
  • Iron Man

    8 7.41%
  • Iron Patriot (Norman Osborn)

    7 6.48%
  • Monica Rambeau

    3 2.78%
  • Dr. Druid

    1 0.93%
  • The Vision

    3 2.78%
  • The Wasp

    19 17.59%
  • Hawkeye

    3 2.78%
  • Luke Cage

    6 5.56%
  • Other

    2 1.85%
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  1. #91
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen-aku View Post
    This.

    Took Down Chton, an Uber inhuman, and ultron like a boss
    Yes and no.

    I think Hank was an effective hero, but not necessarily a good leader. Yes, they took down a lot of very high end powerful bad guys (with Hank himself often doing the lions share of the heavy lifting). But he also got his entire team to quit because they essentially thought he was nuts.

    Part of me wishes Loki had taken Hank up on his offer. With the rest of the team quitting, Mighty Avengers could have essentially been a Hank Pym/Loki buddy book.

  2. #92
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Laufeyson View Post
    I honestly do not know about Dr. Druid....what is so bad about him?
    Dr. Anthony Druid was a manipulative pot bellied, balding big guy with mild mental powers, an out of control superiority complex and an ego the size of Manhattan. He was brought into the team to be a disruptive presence, though he did his share of the heavy lifting when a member. His leadership came from undermining and sabotaging Captain Marvel's tenure and was basically him using his powers to make his teammates vote for him, except for Thor, who was strong enough to resist, and mentally control them, while being the loveslave of Nebula. His leadership was crowned with the disbanding of the Avengers, until Captain America returned and saw fit to pull together a new team. Personally, I feel people that hold him as the standard of looser characters who used to populate the Avengers before the "real cool kids" were brought in are a bunch of idiots, who completely miss the point. His job was to be a failure, and he perfeormed admirably. You can't set the bar by him. It's the same as setting the standard of Titans membership on Terra. Her job was to betray the team, that's why she was brought in. However, Druid really does not belong in a list of best leader of Avengers (nor in one of the best Avenger ever). I liked him and his story though.

    Quote Originally Posted by marvell2100 View Post
    Taking Cap out of the equation I would have to say Wasp. Jan did a superb job leading the Avengers against, Nebula, The Masters of Evil and the Gods of Olympus. That run by Stern and Epting was epic She lead a tam that included, Herc, Thor, Cap, Namor and She Hulk and they all fell in line behind her except for Herc who had to learn his lesson the hard way. So jan gets my vote.
    I know this was a simple mistake, but it has to be corrected.

    Big John Buscema was Stern's second half artist. Epting partnered with Harras.

    Peace

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    Dr. Anthony Druid was a manipulative pot bellied, balding big guy with mild mental powers, an out of control superiority complex and an ego the size of Manhattan. He was brought into the team to be a disruptive presence, though he did his share of the heavy lifting when a member.
    I actually feel sorry for Dr Druid....when he was introduced, he was a different type of character from the typical heroic mold but he was as much a hero as anyone else on the team. He was helpful, altruistic, self-sacrificing etc....it was only when Simonson took over writing that Druid turned bad. While I agree with you that it was a good story, I think he was originally introduced to the team not to disrupt it but more to provide an alternative to the square-jawed hero that nearly every other Avenger male has been. He's just kind of remembered for bringing the team down now but I don't think that was the intention of introducing him personally...

  4. #94
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz0r View Post
    I actually feel sorry for Dr Druid....when he was introduced, he was a different type of character from the typical heroic mold but he was as much a hero as anyone else on the team. He was helpful, altruistic, self-sacrificing etc....it was only when Simonson took over writing that Druid turned bad. While I agree with you that it was a good story, I think he was originally introduced to the team not to disrupt it but more to provide an alternative to the square-jawed hero that nearly every other Avenger male has been. He's just kind of remembered for bringing the team down now but I don't think that was the intention of introducing him personally...
    I can see your point of view, and it's a good one, but I disagree on some things. Druid's first appearence in Avengers, was as a manipulative bastard using the Avengers as pawns with no regard for their will or safety (#225-226). True, when he helped the Avengers during Under Seige, it was out of some kind of remorse for the way he behaved previously, as penitance, however already right after his nomination as an Avengers he is musing about the things he could do if HE were to lead the Avengers, and regreating that new members couldn't be chairman while under probation. Ego much? He already shows a certain feeling of superiority towards She-Hulk, make her the butt of his jokes. He performs admirably during Assault on Olympus, but is already constantly undermining Monica's leadership in the beggining of the Heavy Metal arc, still when written by Stern. I think it's fair to say that we have no idea if Stern planned to go down the road that Simonson went with him, but, for me, at least, it seemed pretty clear that he wanted Druid to cause a bit of friction, and maybe even division among the ranks. One of the most interesting things about Stern's run was that all his Avengers seemed to have such distinct personalities. Layered, but distinct. Each character was different from the other. I guess that's why it's my favorite run of all.

    Peace

  5. #95
    I'm a male DebkoX's Avatar
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    Cage. Easy.
    “The only thing standing between you and your goal is the bullshit story you keep telling yourself as to why you can't achieve it.”

  6. #96
    Elder Member Vic Vega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    I can see your point of view, and it's a good one, but I disagree on some things. Druid's first appearence in Avengers, was as a manipulative bastard using the Avengers as pawns with no regard for their will or safety (#225-226). True, when he helped the Avengers during Under Seige, it was out of some kind of remorse for the way he behaved previously, as penitance, however already right after his nomination as an Avengers he is musing about the things he could do if HE were to lead the Avengers, and regreating that new members couldn't be chairman while under probation. Ego much? He already shows a certain feeling of superiority towards She-Hulk, make her the butt of his jokes. He performs admirably during Assault on Olympus, but is already constantly undermining Monica's leadership in the beggining of the Heavy Metal arc, still when written by Stern. I think it's fair to say that we have no idea if Stern planned to go down the road that Simonson went with him, but, for me, at least, it seemed pretty clear that he wanted Druid to cause a bit of friction, and maybe even division among the ranks. One of the most interesting things about Stern's run was that all his Avengers seemed to have such distinct personalities. Layered, but distinct. Each character was different from the other. I guess that's why it's my favorite run of all.

    Peace
    IMO, Stern's Druid was supposed to be to the Avengers what Major Winchester was to TV's M.A.S.H.
    an arrorgant patrician snob, but competant and decent despite that.

    I always regretted that he didn't stick around.
    Last edited by Vic Vega; 05-08-2013 at 07:18 AM.

  7. #97
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    IMO, Stern's Druid was supposed to be to the Avengers what Major Winchester was to TV's M.A.S.H.
    an arrorgant patrician snob, but competant and decent despite that.

    I always regretted that he didn't stick around.
    Yeah, every team needs a team jerk. It adds a lot of texture to the group.

    Plus, it was sort of unique having a telepath on the Avengers. X books have such a monopoly on those that it's interesting when one shows up anywhere outside of the X-Men. And he was a magical guy to boot. So he definately added something different.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    One of the most interesting things about Stern's run was that all his Avengers seemed to have such distinct personalities. Layered, but distinct. Each character was different from the other. I guess that's why it's my favorite run of all.

    Peace
    I have never read #225-226 so will take your word for it....and now that you mention it, I do remember the other stuff you brought up so I think you might be right; I guess my memory might be a bit fuzzy on the specifics, I haven't read that stuff for a while. I like the Major Winchester analogy that Vic Vega raised actually, I think that fits quite well. I remember Druid as being a good guy with some sympathetic qualities, but definitely more used to being his own final authority on anything and not accustomed to playing well with others all the time.

    I agree on your assessment about Stern's Avengers too...might be the last time Namor showed any real character development, lol :)

    To get back on topic, I would actually like to see some unpopular/wild card choices for leader too....characters like Moondragon, Namor, Hercules have all been shown with various degrees of arrogance or ego but they're all very good at what thy do too. It would be more interesting for me to see how someone like that would respond to leadership and whether their abrasiveness would be their downfall or if they'd pull a Hawkeye and rise to the challenge.

  9. #99
    My dead head. Blind pugh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    Yeah, not going with Cap sorry.

    I pick the Wasp.

    Janet almost as good a tactician as Steve is, but she is actually better at handling all the mega egos involved
    with running the team. She had to grow into it as first(early on Hercules pretty much refused to listen to her), but so did Cap, who had to deal with an insubordinate Hawkeye and a Quicksilver who wasn't much better.

    Wasp has also shown that she can also handle the P.R./political side of the job that Cap and Iron Man treat as an annoyance.

    She is able to make her social skills work for her in a way that neither Cap or Iron Man can.
    Precisely what I came in here to say. Steve was pretty much given leadership on the strength of his past work, Jan worked her way up inside the team.

  10. #100
    Senior Member Moriarty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Um, overreaction much?
    not when it comes to Dr. Druid

  11. #101
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    Psylocke

  12. #102
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz0r View Post
    .

    I agree on your assessment about Stern's Avengers too...might be the last time Namor showed any real character development, lol :)

    To get back on topic, I would actually like to see some unpopular/wild card choices for leader too....characters like Moondragon, Namor, Hercules have all been shown with various degrees of arrogance or ego but they're all very good at what thy do too. It would be more interesting for me to see how someone like that would respond to leadership and whether their abrasiveness would be their downfall or if they'd pull a Hawkeye and rise to the challenge.
    Yeah, the lastr years have been kind of boring with Cap almost permenantly in charge, or aybody who is, trying to be like Cap. I liked different things such as the shared leadership of Black Widow and Black Knight during the Harras and Epting run, or Hank Pym's more aloof and detached leadership during Slott's Mighty, or Iron Man's more "I do everything myself" leadership during Shooter's first run. Really can't imagine Herc leading the Avengers (there's more to leadership than just battle), but Thor might be more intresting, or maybe Spider-Man for a little while (A story arc or two might be fun, more than that, IMHO, runs the risk of placing the character to much OOC or even ruining things that are fun about him). Moon dragon would be VERY intresting.
    As for the fisrt appearence of Dr. Druid in the Avengers, it's included in the Trail of Yellowjacket TPB, which is by itself a great read, if you're intrested.

    Peace

  13. #103
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    Yeah, the lastr years have been kind of boring with Cap almost permenantly in charge, or aybody who is, trying to be like Cap. I liked different things such as the shared leadership of Black Widow and Black Knight during the Harras and Epting run, or Hank Pym's more aloof and detached leadership during Slott's Mighty, or Iron Man's more "I do everything myself" leadership during Shooter's first run. Really can't imagine Herc leading the Avengers (there's more to leadership than just battle), but Thor might be more intresting, or maybe Spider-Man for a little while (A story arc or two might be fun, more than that, IMHO, runs the risk of placing the character to much OOC or even ruining things that are fun about him). Moon dragon would be VERY intresting.
    As for the fisrt appearence of Dr. Druid in the Avengers, it's included in the Trail of Yellowjacket TPB, which is by itself a great read, if you're intrested.

    Peace
    I think Cap has essentially been "permanently" in charge of the Avengers since vol. 3 (except of course when he's not around full time). I think by that point they sort of dropped the idea of rotating chair persons and essentially came to the idea that Steve's in charge when he's there full time. And truthfully it sort of makes sense ... a rotating chair person thing makes sense in elementary school, but for grown ups I never though everyone needed a turn.

    But it is nice occasionally seeing other people in charge, and that's one of the reasons why it's important to have multiple Avengers book. We get to see Alex in charge of the Uncanny Avengers, and that's something different on a variety of levels. And it is a case where Steve is on the team, so it that situation of someone being in Steve's shadow a bit.

    And as we see in Hickmans book, even the main Avengers book occasionally sees other people in charge as the team does break off into smaller units with their own individual field leader. Carol stepped up this week. And she did a pretty bang up job.

  14. #104
    My dead head. Blind pugh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz0r View Post
    To get back on topic, I would actually like to see some unpopular/wild card choices for leader too....characters like Moondragon, Namor, Hercules have all been shown with various degrees of arrogance or ego but they're all very good at what thy do too. It would be more interesting for me to see how someone like that would respond to leadership and whether their abrasiveness would be their downfall or if they'd pull a Hawkeye and rise to the challenge.
    Namor & Herc would make very interesting leaders, while they have similar weaknesses their strengths in the role would be very different. They've both got leadership experience though, so they're still better choices than Moondragon who, though I'm a huge fan of hers, would definitely get used in a kind of Dr. Druid storyline.

  15. #105
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind pugh View Post
    Namor & Herc would make very interesting leaders, while they have similar weaknesses their strengths in the role would be very different. They've both got leadership experience though, so they're still better choices than Moondragon who, though I'm a huge fan of hers, would definitely get used in a kind of Dr. Druid storyline.
    Herc got to play leader in Chaos War.

    Not sure he turned too many heads... but as long as Cho is around to help he can probably grow into the role overtime if given the opportunity.

    Namors a king, so he obviously has experience leading. I think his horrible peoples skills and temper would be a problem... but again, he could grow into the role.

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