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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    In just the past ten years:
    - Clash/Wrath of the Titans
    - God of War video game series
    - Percy Jackson books/movies

    All very popular, all with a child of Zeus.

    Now, how many children of Heracles can you name in movies, books, video games?
    Who has more kids in mainstream media is not the point, but thank you for showing that some ideas apparently just work.

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    So, yes, I say "Zeus is your daddy" is more generic.
    Perhaps, but it gives a far better explanation for her powers than being the child of a rape by a demigod does.
    Last edited by Gaelforce; 04-23-2013 at 05:39 AM. Reason: Edited reply to deleted post

  2. #167
    Junior Member wu-tang warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    Exactly!

    At the end of the day, no genitals were harmed in the making of this comic.
    Now that's funny.

  3. #168
    Needs more lesbian RandomFalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    In just the past ten years:
    - Clash/Wrath of the Titans
    - God of War video game series
    - Percy Jackson books/movies

    All very popular, all with a child of Zeus.
    .
    I thought that Percy Jackson was Poseidon's son. I haven't actually read any of the books, only seen the movie (and then I didn't really pay too much attention to it). But yes, child of Zeus is very generic and I would have preferred a different god.

    But I wouldn't have liked Hercules. Remember when they first revealed that Zeus was Diana's father and an absurd amount of people decided that he must have raped Hippolyta? Imagine what that would have been like if Hercules was Diana's father?

  4. #169
    Senior Member UsagiTsukino's Avatar
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    I since calm down but I always wonder Wonder Woman from what i heard Marston was by today sales one of the highest sales what made Marston different because he refused to to conform to the norm. I now see that that's why Azz is good to some because he was able to make it not conform. There are somethings I like some of the gods designs are a problem for me Poseidon is one of worst design to me. Artemis kinda as well. Apollo is good, Hera is good, I don't like Demeter to me make her more beautiful. Hera I love. Strife don't really care. Goddess of Chaos. The amazons change on my less favorite. The change to her I dislike but more for it being generic. Also she sometimes likes a bit masculine. Oh wait I love Hephaestus. One weird thing is since the gods and goddess had flaws I kinda like the human versions of them. Could have there been a way to keep the Clay origin and the amazons and make it exciting?
    Last edited by UsagiTsukino; 04-22-2013 at 03:15 AM.

  5. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Who has more kids in mainstream media is not the point, but thank you for showing that some ideas apparently just work.
    Because nothing says it's "working" quite like unoriginal ideas and borrowing an old trope? Why bother with something a tad more unique anymore, right? ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Perhaps, but it gives a far better explanation for her powers than being the child of a rape by a demigod does.
    Now that's a rather dumb statement. For starters, rape has absolutely nothing to do with what one inherit's from parents. Furthermore, it's a reboot, right? The story doesn't have to include rape.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomFalls View Post
    I thought that Percy Jackson was Poseidon's son. I haven't actually read any of the books, only seen the movie (and then I didn't really pay too much attention to it). But yes, child of Zeus is very generic and I would have preferred a different god.
    You're right that Percy is the son of Poseidon. But there is a character that appears later in the series that is the daughter of Zeus. Don't know if she will be in the movies (may be introduced in the upcoming sequel).

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomFalls View Post
    But I wouldn't have liked Hercules. Remember when they first revealed that Zeus was Diana's father and an absurd amount of people decided that he must have raped Hippolyta? Imagine what that would have been like if Hercules was Diana's father?
    Reboot. They're changing things around anyway - I don't really see why they couldn't go with a version without rape.
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  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    Because nothing says it's "working" quite like unoriginal ideas and borrowing an old trope? Why bother with something a tad more unique anymore, right? ;)
    Do you want a list of Greek Kings and Rulers that believed, were reputed to be or pretended they were descendants of Heracles? They actually have a name for it; Heracleidae.

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    Now that's a rather dumb statement. For starters, rape has absolutely nothing to do with what one inherit's from parents. Furthermore, it's a reboot, right? The story doesn't have to include rape.
    It's the New 52 and written by Azzarello, who is making a dumb statement now?

  7. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Do you want a list of Greek Kings and Rulers that believed, were reputed to be or pretended they were descendants of Heracles? They actually have a name for it; Heracleidae.
    Thanks for the ancient history lesson (that I already knew). How many of those have been in popular books, movies, games, etc. in the past decade? Any?

    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    It's the New 52 and written by Azzarello, who is making a dumb statement now?
    You seem to have missed the point (again). I know it's "new" 52 written by Azzarello - are you stating the obvious (and not on point) for a reason?
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  8. #173
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Americanwonder always prompts me to bring my A-game.

    I am often puzzled by the love affair with the more modern gods when Rucka did almost a decade ago. It was editorial that prevented subsequent writers cashing in on his great rendering of gods finding new relevance in the 21st century. Indeed, I would say one great strength of this run I'd that the powers that be have let Azz tell his story without interference.

    My reason to hate this run is there are so many reasons to love it. The art by Chiang is strong, and Diana is engaging. But there's not enough of her.

    For me this is reading like Game of Thrones. It's got that feel to it. But in GOT you are constantly interested in the goings on everywhere - Tyrion at Kings Landing, Snow at the Wall, Daenerys across the narrow sea, etc. But here I just don't feel the engagement with the other factions. The forgotten is bland for me, Apollo is no Tywin Lannister. Ares is growing on me but the others are all meh. They just feel like they are there.
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  9. #174
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Americanwonder always prompts me to bring my A-game.

    I am often puzzled by the love affair with the more modern gods when Rucka did almost a decade ago.
    IIRC there was a love affair about it back then too, especially about what Rucka did with Athena and Ares.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
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  10. #175
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    IIRC there was a love affair about it back then too, especially about what Rucka did with Athena and Ares.
    True, but I didnt express myself well. What I meant was, people talk about how this is the best WW in decades [or ever] because of the new take on the gods, but it was done almost a decade ago. As indeed was the whole battle for the throne of Olympus in the same run.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    True, but I didnt express myself well. What I meant was, people talk about how this is the best WW in decades [or ever] because of the new take on the gods, but it was done almost a decade ago. As indeed was the whole battle for the throne of Olympus in the same run.


    A lot of what Azzarello is doing has been done in previous runs in the last 10 to 15 years which is part of the reason I'm so perplexed as to how fans of this run can be all "goo goo ga ga" over it. Let's see:


    1.) Hippolyta keeping a major secret from Diana - done in Messener-Loebs' run.

    2.) Battle for the throne of Olympus - done in Rucka's run.

    3.) The Amazons being vanquished & eliminated from the playing field - done at the end of Amazons Attack.

    4.) Hippolyta is killed off - done in Jimenez's run.


    and that's just off of the top of my head.
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  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Guy View Post
    A lot of what Azzarello is doing has been done in previous runs in the last 10 to 15 years which is part of the reason I'm so perplexed as to how fans of this run can be all "goo goo ga ga" over it.
    Well, we fans of Azzarello's Wonder Woman are traditionalists; we like that he's sticking to the old motifs!

    1.) Hippolyta keeping a major secret from Diana - done in Messener-Loebs' run.

    ...and that's just off of the top of my head.
    And you could add rescue mission to hell -- done in Rucka's run (and, incidentally, in Marston's, though that was more than 15 years ago.)

    Actually, as you may know, some of the things you mention weren't original to the authors you mention, either. For example, Hippolyta keeping a secret from Diana right after the "all-new Wonder Woman" period, I believe.

    Seriously, I take your point, but it doesn't bother me. When I'm reading a character who's been around for 70+ years, I don't expect absolute originality (actually, I almost never expect absolute anything). What I do expect is the kind of originality that comes from putting a new spin on old things--i.e., repetition with difference. And the kind of originality that comes from putting old ideas together in new combinations. For example, the idea of Wonder Woman is more than 70 years old; the idea of children of Zeus is ancient; but the idea of Wonder Woman as a child of Zeus is relatively new. The idea of man-hating Amazons is ancient; the idea of Amazons having raised a loving, compassionate hero is more than 70 years old; but the idea of man-hating Amazons having raised a loving, compassionate hero is relatively new.

    Take what's old, and make it new again. That's the job of a reboot, and I think this one is doing it.

  13. #178
    Senior Member WhitOro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    True, but I didnt express myself well. What I meant was, people talk about how this is the best WW in decades [or ever] because of the new take on the gods, but it was done almost a decade ago. As indeed was the whole battle for the throne of Olympus in the same run.
    A key factor of the reimagination of the gods that I like about Azzarello is Cliff Chang contribution on the actual page. The gods feel godly, they feel different, separated from this world, they look ancient and powerful, alien and mysterious.

    I'll admit that I haven't read the entirety of Rucka's run, so I may just be talking out of ignorance, but his gods seems to me just "Gods in suits". That's it. They're a modern reimagination in the sense that "hey, modern gods would wear modern clothes and use modern stuff! Let's have Athena use a laptop! GENIUS". I get nothing from them, they look like Prada's models.
    Ares just seems an ordinary jock with a good tailor.


    But Azzares in his two different forms, allows for interpretation and analysis. He was big and strong and muscular, then he became a wimpering old man, covered in blood. It makes gears in my brain move.

  14. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Guy View Post
    A lot of what Azzarello is doing has been done in previous runs in the last 10 to 15 years which is part of the reason I'm so perplexed as to how fans of this run can be all "goo goo ga ga" over it.
    Sure, but are people clamouring about how original the Azzarello is, or how good he is.

    There's no such thing as a new story, but the quality of storytelling can vary significantly.
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  15. #180
    Dr. Poison's Lab Asst. Power Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    Well, we fans of Azzarello's Wonder Woman are traditionalists; we like that he's sticking to the old motifs!



    And you could add rescue mission to hell -- done in Rucka's run (and, incidentally, in Marston's, though that was more than 15 years ago.)

    Actually, as you may know, some of the things you mention weren't original to the authors you mention, either. For example, Hippolyta keeping a secret from Diana right after the "all-new Wonder Woman" period, I believe.

    Seriously, I take your point, but it doesn't bother me. When I'm reading a character who's been around for 70+ years, I don't expect absolute originality (actually, I almost never expect absolute anything). What I do expect is the kind of originality that comes from putting a new spin on old things--i.e., repetition with difference. And the kind of originality that comes from putting old ideas together in new combinations. For example, the idea of Wonder Woman is more than 70 years old; the idea of children of Zeus is ancient; but the idea of Wonder Woman as a child of Zeus is relatively new. The idea of man-hating Amazons is ancient; the idea of Amazons having raised a loving, compassionate hero is more than 70 years old; but the idea of man-hating Amazons having raised a loving, compassionate hero is relatively new.

    Take what's old, and make it new again. That's the job of a reboot, and I think this one is doing it.

    I get what you're saying. I'm not totally against a write rehashing a previous plot-point. It's how soon that Azzarello is doing these things after other writers have done them. 10 - 15 years isn't a long time in comics IMO but if you're enjoying the book, I'm happy for you.
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