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  1. #706

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    My point is more that SpOck could feasibly view Stacy's death through Peter's eyes, which would make it more complicated. He'd probably feel a bit guilty AND resent the Hell out of Peter. But if he's capable of seeing his culpability in the little girl's situation (Amy, is it?) then he could see his own role in Stacy's death, too.
    Oh I see where you are going with that. He could see that his actions have had consequences. Karma would, in effect, bite him in the ass. That would be good to see. However, I'm not convinced that Slott really has Ock on a redemptive path. I think he is going to give it the old college try and really come close, but find that he just can't make the final jump to achieve it. Maybe one of the ways of showing him almost get there and fail would be to show him facing up to the death he has caused over the years.

    The conflict between SpOck and Cat would be much more explosive, seeing as how she's still alive, he stole her on again off again boyfriend's body, and there's no denying that he savagely beat her with the intention of murder.
    He did savagely beat her. And was it the owl's henchmen who shot her? Either them or Ock's henchmen. I agree, Cat should not easily forgive him.

    Thing is, if this is a redemption story then its either about forgive and forget OR its about Ock paying for his sins. At least thats the way I look at it, with my christian background. It seems very unlikely that anyone would forgive Ock, let alone forget about all the things he has done. So, for me, the only path to true redemption for him is for him to pay the price. Maybe Peter takes over his body and Ock "dies" for real. That would complete the process begun by his promising to live up to Pete's mantra, saving the girl, etc.

    Ock just cannot do enough good to balance the scales, not when you consider things like the death of Captain Stacy. And killing Peter Parker of course. There has to be a price.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 04-29-2013 at 02:58 PM.
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  2. #707

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Oh I see where you are going with that. He could see that his actions have had consequences. Karma would, in effect, bite him in the ass. That would be good to see. However, I'm not convinced that Slott really has Ock on a redemptive path. I think he is going to give it the old college try and really come close, but find that he just can't make the final jump to achieve it. Maybe one of the ways of showing him almost get there and fail would be to show him facing up to the death he has caused over the years.
    It's a stretch, but who knows how it's going to play out. I don't think SpOck would care about Stacey unless some form of Peter's memories rip into SpOck's thinking. I read SpOck was abused as a kid and I could see him feeling super guilty by taking a good parent/father away from his family.
    Pull List: Saga, East of West, Aphrodite

  3. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by cristin.parker96 View Post
    The only thing I'm not sure of is the order of the worst storylines, but I think it goes like this.... 1.) Clone Saga, 2) Doc Ock in Peter's Body, 3) Erasing Peter/MJ's Past. Any thoughts?
    I like Ben and Kaine, so I have to disagree with the Clone Saga being included... Erasing Peter and MJ was complete B.S., and Doc Ock as Spider-Man is sickening...

  4. #709
    Sad Hawkguy in the snow CyberHubbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishikabe View Post
    I've ignored people here that just constantly condescend me.
    I'm sure you'll live.
    I know Kevin Nichols through a guy that knows a gal. Small world!

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  5. #710
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    Getting bored living? Hungry? Why wait? Eat a Snickers...

  6. #711

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    Quote Originally Posted by DV1Band View Post
    I like Ben and Kaine, so I have to disagree with the Clone Saga being included... Erasing Peter and MJ was complete B.S., and Doc Ock as Spider-Man is sickening...
    I bought Spider-Man before Ben took over, but quit before he took over. I started again after it was all about Ben but bought the comics anyways because it felt like Spider-Man.

    This is how I feel about the current Scarlet Spider series.
    Pull List: Saga, East of West, Aphrodite

  7. #712
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars C View Post
    However you think about it, it's not just his story. This is a fifty year, world famous character that is the flag ship for the publisher. It's not like anybody would complain like this if Robert Kirkman did something like this in Invincible or any other example. Entitlement can work both ways.
    Not really. We have no entitlement beyond the kind you'd have with any other book or character. If JK Rowling killed Harry Potter, the world would be pissed, but it's still HER story. Its unfortunate for us because we love the characters and may feel somewhat betrayed because we've followed the character for so long and suddenly they hit us while we weren't looking.

    I was really sad when Ult. Peter was killed. Angry even. And especially frustrated. But at the end of the day, Bendis decides and that's that. I really want him to come back but I'm not blaming Bendis for anything. I simply stopped buying the title after that. The only thing we can do is not buy the book in protest.

    We have to be able to disagree with a decision that a writer/director/etc makes without going nuts like many have in this forum. It's fine to say "Dan, I don't agree with the decision, I don't think it was very good" etc. But the truth is the book IS selling.

    What I will agree with is that the way Dan and Wacker have been dealing with the fans is at best in the gray area. But not with how they talk on the forum. It has more to do with all the "Peter fans will fade" "Peter is dead, dead, dead" and all that just to create buzz and waves. I respect them both immensely but that is low and hope they don't do that again. There just isn't any need for that. And that hurts the relationship with the long time fans. It's disingenuous
    Last edited by Xistel; 04-29-2013 at 05:22 PM.
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  8. #713
    Senior Member Lars C's Avatar
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    The "minor" detail there is that JK Rowling created Harry Potter and the gang, Dan Slott did not create Spider-Man.

  9. #714
    Junior Member the Nomad's Avatar
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    I've been seeing alot of stuff about the Superior Spider-Man sales and how through the roof they are but has anyone factored into the equation that the reason for those sales being so high is that People who like the book....AND......people who don't like the book have been buying the issues. I haven't been able to get into Superior since Amazing Spider 700 and yet I've been buying the issues hoping that I would or at least I would see some semblance of Peter coming back and to give it a fair shot. This issue was actually touched upon by another poster. People who don't like Doc Spidey are still buying the book which is boosting the sales that everyone likes to brag about. And yes, people who don't like the book are buying it... Why, there are a dozens reasons why. Commitment to the character, hope of the character returning.......maybe people are just reading to see how the supporting characters like Mary Jane, Aunt May, Max Modell and the rest of Horizons labs react to Doc Spidey, or maybe the biggest reason...curiosity. By nature we're curious creatures so maybe people's curiosity is overriding their dislike perhaps........the list could go on. I know, I know it's silly to buy something you don't like buy hey...we're humans and we tend to do silly thing sometimes. Anyway I'm not trying to bring anyone down off of their Superior Spider-Man high....as if anything I say could actually do that....all I'm saying is that those sales everyone is so content to brag about is not all from people who are enjoying the book.

  10. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xistel View Post
    Let me try and sum stuff up.

    Some people like SSM. Others don't. We are all readers. Slott is the writer. He tells the story. If we don't like the story, we don't buy it.

    Just let the man tell his story.

    And this is coming from a guy who hasn't read SSM at all. I dropped after 700. Although I'll read the whole thing after Peter is announced. Just let the man tell his story.
    God bless you...
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  11. #716
    Junior Member BottomsUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars C View Post
    The "minor" detail there is that JK Rowling created Harry Potter and the gang, Dan Slott did not create Spider-Man.
    If that distinction mattered at all, nobody could ever change a thing about Spider-man, because they're not Stan Lee. Marvel hired Dan to do a job and his top story is spiking the sales as we speak. That's all there is to it.

  12. #717
    R.I.P. Blue Beetle AlanScott606's Avatar
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    I don't like the current direction of Spider-Man but I respect the fact that Mr. Slott has a story he wants to tell and I have accepted the fact I won't buy any of the Spock issues. I really don't see the point in coming on the boards and shouting how much I hate the current direction because

    A: It's pointless when Marvel is backing the story and so do sales.

    B. I haven't actually read anything past ASM 700.

    I think everyone should calm down and let the story ride itself out, not try to pressure an ending to a story because some of us don't like it. We all know Peter will be back in command of his body and the Spider-Man title sooner or later. I am using the time he isn't to enjoy a little extra money in my pocket :D

  13. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by magisensei View Post
    Here is a question that is on and off topic at the same time.

    When Spiderman appears in Cpt Marvel issue 1 he seems to be the Spidey we all recognize with the humor and banter that is his trade mark - is this just lazy writing on the part of the writers?

    Spiderman takes off his mask to speak to the Avengers also in this same issue but when Mephisto altered time for Spiderman he also reversed Spidey joining the Avengers -since he never revealed his identity to them so how come he is still nominally part of the Avengers and taking off his mask OR did Mephisto only reverse the part where Spiderman reveals his identity to the general public so he stays an Avenger?
    Mephisto didn't reverse anything to do with Spider-Man's identity. The Avengers and the rest of the world forgot it as the result of the magic spell Doctor Strange, Iron Man and Reed Richards performed in OMIT.
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  14. #719
    Senior Member Lars C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BottomsUp View Post
    If that distinction mattered at all, nobody could ever change a thing about Spider-man, because they're not Stan Lee. Marvel hired Dan to do a job and his top story is spiking the sales as we speak. That's all there is to it.
    There's a huge difference between doing some changes and freaking KILLING the main character OFF wouldn't you say? Changes? Sure! Killing Peter? No.

  15. #720
    Senior Member Xenon's Avatar
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    I thought of one more thing as a kind of addendum to my last post.

    When I vent, I don't do so JUST to hear myself vent. I do so also because I want to ahve a discussion about things. I want to understand, I want to like. I have changed my mind on things after arguing with people before, and I'll change it again when the arguments are good enough and strong enough. That's the point of discussion, of arguments. It shouldn't just be a sounding chamber with everyone yelling and no one listening. I post and complain with two opposing hopes. One, that I might convert someone to my side with the strength of my argument and two, that I might be converted to the other side if they give me a better reason to change my position. So as long as people want to talk about it, I want to as well. Positive and negative.

    Quote Originally Posted by magisensei View Post
    Here is a question that is on and off topic at the same time.

    When Spiderman appears in Cpt Marvel issue 1 he seems to be the Spidey we all recognize with the humor and banter that is his trade mark - is this just lazy writing on the part of the writers?

    Spiderman takes off his mask to speak to the Avengers also in this same issue but when Mephisto altered time for Spiderman he also reversed Spidey joining the Avengers -since he never revealed his identity to them so how come he is still nominally part of the Avengers and taking off his mask OR did Mephisto only reverse the part where Spiderman reveals his identity to the general public so he stays an Avenger?
    1) IIRC, Captain MArvel 1 came out quite a bit before Superior #1. So it was Peter.
    2) As I understand the mind wipe, people are all aware that at one point they knew Spider-Man's identity. But for some reason no one can remember it. But it hasn't been explored with any great detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by ishikabe View Post
    The NY Daily had a poll that said 88% thought the premise was bad.

    That's the Marvel line now. If you don't like it, don't buy it and go away plus get off the internet.
    I would love to ascribe meaning to that poll, but as an internet poll, it's highly unreliable. Unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberHubbs View Post
    I'm sure you'll live.
    Unless he's a monster that survives by consuming negativity thrown his way. And then won't you feel terrible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xistel View Post
    Not really. We have no entitlement beyond the kind you'd have with any other book or character. If JK Rowling killed Harry Potter, the world would be pissed, but it's still HER story. Its unfortunate for us because we love the characters and may feel somewhat betrayed because we've followed the character for so long and suddenly they hit us while we weren't looking.

    I was really sad when Ult. Peter was killed. Angry even. And especially frustrated. But at the end of the day, Bendis decides and that's that. I really want him to come back but I'm not blaming Bendis for anything. I simply stopped buying the title after that. The only thing we can do is not buy the book in protest.

    We have to be able to disagree with a decision that a writer/director/etc makes without going nuts like many have in this forum. It's fine to say "Dan, I don't agree with the decision, I don't think it was very good" etc. But the truth is the book IS selling.

    What I will agree with is that the way Dan and Wacker have been dealing with the fans is at best in the gray area. But not with how they talk on the forum. It has more to do with all the "Peter fans will fade" "Peter is dead, dead, dead" and all that just to create buzz and waves. I respect them both immensely but that is low and hope they don't do that again. There just isn't any need for that. And that hurts the relationship with the long time fans. It's disingenuous
    I'm with Lars here in that there's a pretty significant distinction between something with one author and something that was created by one set of authors and then passed along to other people. It's much less HIS when it's just assigned to him for now and will be taken back later at some point. When you're the actual creator, I think you get a lot more leeway. It's your baby, you can do what you want with it. But with something like Spider-Man or other corporate owned creations, I think you have to worry about staying true to the original vision or a progression of that creators vision.

    Quote Originally Posted by BottomsUp View Post
    If that distinction mattered at all, nobody could ever change a thing about Spider-man, because they're not Stan Lee. Marvel hired Dan to do a job and his top story is spiking the sales as we speak. That's all there is to it.
    There's a balance. Obviously you don't want a charcter to stand still (unless your Marvel and you spent the last five years arguing just that to justify your immensely unpopular decision), but you can't just do anything you want with that character either. It still has to play within the boundaries of the character.

    That isn't to say that Superior breaks those boundaries necessarily, however.
    When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.-C.S.Lewis

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