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  1. #1171
    Barely A Member sparticus's Avatar
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    Although I'm still not sure about the Penn State gag.

  2. #1172
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    Gifted?

    And that started with Xavier, mind you.
    Right? Mutant is a classification. We don't go around calling ourselves 'homosapiens'.
    Freedom is merely the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  3. #1173
    The Professional marvell2100's Avatar
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    I'm loving all the pro-Alex avatars! Great job!
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  4. #1174
    The Professional marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    Right? Mutant is a classification. We don't go around calling ourselves 'homosapiens'.
    Lol. You had me rolling with this one.
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  5. #1175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boots View Post
    No if he expounded on why he hate's the term "mutant" And why he was contemplating on joining wanda's no more mutants stand and you have a leader
    with an identity crisis, just because some mutants do evil. It feels like a sock poppet on the podium it reak's of fear and grief and I don't know if you can salvage a character like that.
    No. Let's do a discourse analysis. Here is the dialogue of the Havok character in the comic:

    "I don't see myself as born into a mutant cult or a religion. Having an X-gene doesn't bond me to anyone. It doesn't define me.

    In fact, I see the very word "mutant" as divisive. Old thinking that serves to further separate us from our fellow man. We are all humans of one tribe. We are defined by our choices, not the makeup of our genes.

    So, please, don't call us mutants. The "M" word represents everything I hate."

    There's no reference here to not wanting to be associated with evil. There are no linguistic markers of fear and grief. NOTHING of that sort.

    There's also no disavowal of having an x-gene. NOTHING of that sort.

    What he is disavowing is the label mutant. Because for him, it is divisive (mutants | humans). A close reading would show that his idea of the divisiveness may have been based on his experience that his genetic makeup has been used by other people to define who he is "bonded" to, who is his "cult" and what his "beliefs" are. He is arguing against geneticism, which in the Marvel Universe is portrayed as a prevalent belief used to discriminate against other people. In the real world, there is a real geneticist movement, a successor of eugenics, which forwards the belief that all human behavior is determined by one's genetic makeup.

    What Havok is forwarding is that he be judged based on his choices, not his genetic makeup. He is basically forwarding a very modernist position, that his actions be judged based on performance not based on "essential' qualities. It's like Talcott Parsons pattern variables theory of achievement (modern society) vs. ascription (traditional society).

    I am glad that we are seeing different positions being forwarded in the different mutant books. I actually find it good that Remender is injecting some ideas from labeling theory into the discussion. Here is a summary of the propositions of labeling theory from the Blackwell Encyclopedia of Sociology.

    "Labeling theory argues that initial acts of child misbehavior are harmless acts of primary deviance; if left alone, children would mature out of misbehavior. While the children define such acts as ‘‘play’’ or ‘‘mischief,’’ the adult community defines them as ‘‘bad’’ or ‘‘evil.’’ The community, which includes parents, teachers, and juvenile justice officials, labels the acts as ‘‘delinquent,’’ and the child as ‘‘bad’’ or ‘‘evil,’’ in need of treatment or reform. The label, in turn, affects the self image of the child, who comes to internalize the label, which produces more deviance, and more labeling. This escalating process of labeling can eventuate in the youth caught up in the legal system, stigmatized by society, isolated from conventional groups, and left with a deviant self image. The result can be a self fulfilling prophecy, as an otherwise conforming child fulfills the prophecy of the initial labeling of harmless acts, through deviance amplification."
    Last edited by erwinrafael; 03-30-2013 at 05:18 AM.
    I don't think there's a current mainstream American superhero comic book that can touch Hawkeye right now. Brilliant all the way. Entertaining and technically outstanding at the same time.

  6. #1176
    The Professional marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erwinrafael View Post
    No. Let's do a discourse analysis. Here is the dialogue of the Havok character in the comic:

    "I don't see myself as born into a mutant cult or a religion. Having an X-gene doesn't bond me to anyone. It doesn't define me.

    In fact, I see the very word "mutant" as divisive. Old thinking that serves to further separate us from our fellow man. We are all humans of one tribe. We are defined by our choices, not the makeup of our genes.

    So, please, don't call us mutants. The "M" word represents everything I hate."

    There's no reference here to not wanting to be associated with evil. There are no linguistic markers of fear and grief. NOTHING of that sort.

    There's also no disavowal of having an x-gene. NOTHING of that sort.

    What he is disavowing is the label mutant. Because for him, it is divisive (mutants | humans). A close reading would show that his idea of the divisiveness may have been based on his experience that his genetic makeup has been used by other people to define who he is "bonded" to, who is his "cult" and what his "beliefs" are. He is arguing against geneticism, which in the Marvel Universe is portrayed as a prevalent belief used to discriminate against other people. In the real world, there is a real geneticist movement, a successor of eugenics, which forwards the belief that all human behavior is determined by one's genetic makeup.

    What Havok is forwarding is that he be judged based on his choices, not his genetic makeup. He is basically forwarding a very modernist position, that his actions be judged based on performance not based on "essential' qualities. It's like Talcott Parsons pattern variables theory of achievement (modern society) vs. ascription (traditional society).

    I am glad that we are seeing different positions being forwarded in the different mutant books. I actually find it good that Remender is injecting some ideas from labeling theory into the discussion. Here is a summary of the propositions of labeling theory from the Blackwell Encyclopedia of Sociology.

    "Labeling theory argues that initial acts of child misbehavior are harmless acts of primary deviance; if left alone, children would mature out of misbehavior. While the children define such acts as ‘‘play’’ or ‘‘mischief,’’ the adult community defines them as ‘‘bad’’ or ‘‘evil.’’ The community, which includes parents, teachers, and juvenile justice officials, labels the acts as ‘‘delinquent,’’ and the child as ‘‘bad’’ or ‘‘evil,’’ in need of treatment or reform. The label, in turn, affects the self image of the child, who comes to internalize the label, which produces more deviance, and more labeling. This escalating process of labeling can eventuate in the youth caught up in the legal system, stigmatized by society, isolated from conventional groups, and left with a deviant self image. The result can be a self fulfilling prophecy, as an otherwise conforming child fulfills the prophecy of the initial labeling of harmless acts, through deviance amplification."
    This is a great post. Well done.
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  7. #1177
    The glass is half full. PSINGRAPHD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDMacQ View Post
    ... Of course Remender is not a hater or a bigot. You can't be a hater or a bigot towards a fictional minority.
    I know, right, sometimes I think people forget that we're talking 'bout... COMIC BOOKS! It's kinda scary how serious some take all this stuff, and the tones they adopt to - ahem - eXpress their views. I mean superheroes are fun & entertaining, but not overly deep, from my perspective anyway.
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  8. #1178
    Senior Member timeismoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erwinrafael View Post
    No. Let's do a discourse analysis. Here is the dialogue of the Havok character in the comic:

    "I don't see myself as born into a mutant cult or a religion. Having an X-gene doesn't bond me to anyone. It doesn't define me.

    In fact, I see the very word "mutant" as divisive. Old thinking that serves to further separate us from our fellow man. We are all humans of one tribe. We are defined by our choices, not the makeup of our genes.

    So, please, don't call us mutants. The "M" word represents everything I hate."

    There's no reference here to not wanting to be associated with evil. There are no linguistic markers of fear and grief. NOTHING of that sort.

    There's also no disavowal of having an x-gene. NOTHING of that sort.

    What he is disavowing is the label mutant. Because for him, it is divisive (mutants | humans). A close reading would show that his idea of the divisiveness may have been based on his experience that his genetic makeup has been used by other people to define who he is "bonded" to, who is his "cult" and what his "beliefs" are. He is arguing against geneticism, which in the Marvel Universe is portrayed as a prevalent belief used to discriminate against other people. In the real world, there is a real geneticist movement, a successor of eugenics, which forwards the belief that all human behavior is determined by one's genetic makeup.

    What Havok is forwarding is that he be judged based on his choices, not his genetic makeup. He is basically forwarding a very modernist position, that his actions be judged based on performance not based on "essential' qualities. It's like Talcott Parsons pattern variables theory of achievement (modern society) vs. ascription (traditional society).

    I am glad that we are seeing different positions being forwarded in the different mutant books. I actually find it good that Remender is injecting some ideas from labeling theory into the discussion. Here is a summary of the propositions of labeling theory from the Blackwell Encyclopedia of Sociology.

    "Labeling theory argues that initial acts of child misbehavior are harmless acts of primary deviance; if left alone, children would mature out of misbehavior. While the children define such acts as ‘‘play’’ or ‘‘mischief,’’ the adult community defines them as ‘‘bad’’ or ‘‘evil.’’ The community, which includes parents, teachers, and juvenile justice officials, labels the acts as ‘‘delinquent,’’ and the child as ‘‘bad’’ or ‘‘evil,’’ in need of treatment or reform. The label, in turn, affects the self image of the child, who comes to internalize the label, which produces more deviance, and more labeling. This escalating process of labeling can eventuate in the youth caught up in the legal system, stigmatized by society, isolated from conventional groups, and left with a deviant self image. The result can be a self fulfilling prophecy, as an otherwise conforming child fulfills the prophecy of the initial labeling of harmless acts, through deviance amplification."
    Great Post dude.
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  9. #1179
    Senior Member timeismoney's Avatar
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    And another post I agree with. That is why me and other turn the whole thing into a joke, because that is what this whole thing has turn into.
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  10. #1180
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparticus View Post
    ... 1) Did someone point out how awesome this book was?...
    Yes, YOU just did... and I wholeheartedly agree, #5 was my first issue & I absolutely loved it. The cast of characters, the plot & dialogue from the writer, the visual storytelling of the artist: all top-notch! I'm definitely in it for, hopefully... the VERY long haul.
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  11. #1181
    Jabbroni albone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_S View Post
    Did Remender really take down the tweets about hobo's? Also I'd still like to know if in the future Rogue will take another Avengers powers, if so shouldn't she clear it with them beforehand? I don't imagine anyones gonna be too crazy about the idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by jen View Post
    She did ask Simon for permission, so there is that.
    Rouge did ask permission at that, but I think when the shit is going down like that, even Carol would be okay with Rouge borrowing powers.
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  12. #1182
    The glass is half full. PSINGRAPHD's Avatar
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    I cannot WAIT to see where that shock ending takes Rogue as a character. I think RR is doing a wonderful job handling her, deftly showing the many different facets of her personality. This is the most enthused I've been about Anna Marie in a long time.

    I also LOVED new additions Wasp, Sunfire, & Wonder Man A LOT. Their joining was actually the driving force in me wanting to buy & read this, and I'm hooked. Shiro's definitely somebody I want to see much more of, no doubt. And Janet... I couldn't say enough good things 'bout her, she's like the icing on the cake - just an amazing character.

    Scarlet Witch was great, too. I love Wanda & am glad to see her becoming an even more compleX character under RR's pen. Also very interested to see where this journey takes HER.

    Cap was great, as always, and Logan was good besides. Havok's development & evolution as a character is very intriguing & of high importance to me, as well. So glad he was chosen for this role.

    Everything about this book seems to be almost perfectly tailored to my liking, so thank you, Marvel & Rick Remender... UA is awesome!
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  13. #1183
    Jabbroni albone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
    I was thinking more along the lines "Avenger defends public media and attending crowd from mad man with a death wish."
    This is WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN.
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  14. #1184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_S View Post
    I figured he just went out to get a soda.
    Quote Originally Posted by PSINGRAPHD View Post
    Yes, YOU just did... and I wholeheartedly agree, #5 was my first issue & I absolutely loved it. The cast of characters, the plot & dialogue from the writer, the visual storytelling of the artist: all top-notch! I'm definitely in it for, hopefully... the VERY long haul.
    I agree. :)
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  15. #1185
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    Quote Originally Posted by albone View Post
    Rouge did ask permission at that, but I think when the shit is going down like that, even Carol would be okay with Rouge borrowing powers.
    I don't know. I know everyone says that Rogue has control over her powers but I don't think Wanda would be ok with it considering their first meeting and Rogue's attitude toward her since then. I think if they all sat down and went through battle scenarios and Rogue said something "Well if you're down and I'm up I think I should grab some of your powers to fight with if I can't get to the bad guy." then it'd be interesting to see the reaction.

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