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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I think at this point DC needs to bite the bullet and do whatever they can to sway Mark Waid to come on board, and give him virtually total creative control.

    He's the only writer in all the industry that truly gets Superman and would (hopefully) stick around for a while.
    The only writer? We just had Grant Morrison. What, he doesn't get Superman?

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneNecromancer View Post
    The only writer? We just had Grant Morrison. What, he doesn't get Superman?
    Read the whole sentence in context.

    He's the only writer in all the industry that truly gets Superman, and would (hopefully) stick around for a while.
    I think you and I are destined to do this forever.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Coyote2010's Avatar
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    I love Waid's Daredevil and Birthright was terrific as well, but I don't see why he's considered the guy for Superman. Maybe JLA is not the best measure, but I don't remember thinking, "wow, that's Superman!" I suppose Kingdom Come is another example, but I felt like that was too moody to be the definitive Superman story. If not Morrison, I would rather Busiek do another run, given the new state of the character, I like the idea of younger guys on the character. How about the guy from Dial H?

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote2010 View Post
    I love Waid's Daredevil and Birthright was terrific as well, but I don't see why he's considered the guy for Superman. Maybe JLA is not the best measure, but I don't remember thinking, "wow, that's Superman!" I suppose Kingdom Come is another example, but I felt like that was too moody to be the definitive Superman story. If not Morrison, I would rather Busiek do another run, given the new state of the character, I like the idea of younger guys on the character. How about the guy from Dial H?
    Waid has never really been allowed to give us his true, unfiltered interpretation of Superman. JLA was an ensemble book. Kingdom Come was as much Alex Ross as Mark Waid. Birthright is arguably the closest, but even that was interfered with by editorial and then poorly shoe-horned into canon, thus crippling its acceptance by many fans.

    I admittingly was not a big fan of Busiek's run on Superman, but I wouldn't be entirely opposed to him getting another shot.
    I think you and I are destined to do this forever.

  5. #20
    Senior Member neverender's Avatar
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    Knew it wouldn't last long. Going to enjoy it while it lasts.
    Pull-list: Action Comics, Batman, Superior Spider-Man, Flash, Daredevil, Ms Marvel, Silver Surfer, Thor: God of Thunder

  6. #21

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    They should just cancel the "Superman Unchained" book and move the storyline over to Action Comics. As it is, Action is going to play second fiddle to Snyder's book unless they get a super famous writer to take the series.

  7. #22

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    The thing with Waid is that he understands characters deeply and thoroughly; what makes them work, what makes them not.

    But he isn't always able to craft an engaging, original story out of it. In fact, I'd argue that he is RARELY able to craft a thoroughly engaging story out of it. He writes the way that he writes, and on Daredevil it looks great because a mainstream, straightforward approach is the NOVEL approach. But with Superman, as it was with Brave and the Bold, I think that would come off boring; poor antagonists, not much angst to explore.

    Birthright got Superman perfectly. But halfway through I was bored. It was dull, listless, lifeless.

    I'd love to see him as part of some sort of Superman gestalt creative team. I'd love to see him in a rotating book, on Superman Adventures or on a Superman weekly along with, I don't know, Jeff Parker and Matt Kindt and China Mieville, each with their own strength, each doing their thing.

    But he's not the perfect fit that Grant Morrison is, IMHO. I can think of probably a half dozen creators I think would be a better fit for Superman, despite Waid 'getting' him as well as anyone.
    Check out my New Blog! Just a random assortment of ideas, thoughts, and reviews!

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  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaad View Post
    The thing with Waid is that he understands characters deeply and thoroughly; what makes them work, what makes them not.

    But he isn't always able to craft an engaging, original story out of it. In fact, I'd argue that he is RARELY able to craft a thoroughly engaging story out of it. He writes the way that he writes, and on Daredevil it looks great because a mainstream, straightforward approach is the NOVEL approach. But with Superman, as it was with Brave and the Bold, I think that would come off boring; poor antagonists, not much angst to explore.

    Birthright got Superman perfectly. But halfway through I was bored. It was dull, listless, lifeless.

    I'd love to see him as part of some sort of Superman gestalt creative team. I'd love to see him in a rotating book, on Superman Adventures or on a Superman weekly along with, I don't know, Jeff Parker and Matt Kindt and China Mieville, each with their own strength, each doing their thing.

    But he's not the perfect fit that Grant Morrison is, IMHO. I can think of probably a half dozen creators I think would be a better fit for Superman, despite Waid 'getting' him as well as anyone.
    Waid is like any writer in that his stories are hit-or-miss. I agree that he's not always able to write a completely engaging story. I also agree that Birthright lost steam towards the climax of the story (although I've recently re-read it and it's actually a really good story - I maintain that much of its negative reaction was because of DC's poor attempt to shoehorn it into the Byrne continuity).

    However, his runs on Flash, Captain America, and Fantastic Four were awesome, IMO. Irredeemable is a very different and interesting story. And his Hulk is shaping up to be really good.

    I just think given his history, body of work, and his understanding of the character, he's more than due a run with the character.
    I think you and I are destined to do this forever.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    Waid is like any writer in that his stories are hit-or-miss. I agree that he's not always able to write a completely engaging story. I also agree that Birthright lost steam towards the climax of the story (although I've recently re-read it and it's actually a really good story - I maintain that much of its negative reaction was because of DC's poor attempt to shoehorn it into the Byrne continuity).
    Eh? I don't really feel there was any attempt to shoe horn it into continuity, just a lack of clarity (until about halfway through) about where DC stood on it's continuity.

    I think Waid is more 'hit or miss' than many creators out there; in that way he's very schizophrenic. Peter Milligan has a similar pedigree; and like Milligan, even when his work is 'miss' I usually find something impressive. "Birthright" was a miss for me, but his grasp of Superman there was undeniable. If I have a problem with Waid, it's that his antagonists tend to be mundane, his plots fairly safe and uninspired. If he doesn't have something really revolutionary to say about the character themselves - as he did with his vast tonal shift in Daredevil and his exploration of his sensory abilities - if he doesn't have a very strong and unique starting premise, his works usually veer off.

    That's just me, though.

    However, his runs on Flash, Captain America, and Fantastic Four were awesome, IMO. Irredeemable is a very different and interesting story. And his Hulk is shaping up to be really good.
    I won't agree on Flash or Captain America (neither did it for me), but I certainly will on Fantastic Four. I think one of things that made that run so great was precisely, though, that they HADN'T been well defined up to that point. And I think, as time went on, that run sort of unraveled into irrelevancy. That final arc was...in my mind, not very good. His Hulk is precisely what I'm talking to -- I'm finding that a bit underwhelming. Not BAD, because Waid is too GOOD for anything he puts out to be BAD, but just not electrifying. His Legion had all kinds of things going for it, the conceptual framework was there, but...it just didn't work out.



    I just think given his history, body of work, and his understanding of the character, he's more than due a run with the character.
    Sure. That he's not in my top 5 doesn't mean he's not a great choice!
    Check out my New Blog! Just a random assortment of ideas, thoughts, and reviews!

    http://heshouldreallyknowbetter.blogspot.com/

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    Waid is like any writer in that his stories are hit-or-miss. I agree that he's not always able to write a completely engaging story. I also agree that Birthright lost steam towards the climax of the story (although I've recently re-read it and it's actually a really good story - I maintain that much of its negative reaction was because of DC's poor attempt to shoehorn it into the Byrne continuity).

    However, his runs on Flash, Captain America, and Fantastic Four were awesome, IMO. Irredeemable is a very different and interesting story. And his Hulk is shaping up to be really good.

    I just think given his history, body of work, and his understanding of the character, he's more than due a run with the character.
    QFT.

    I have a hard time recalling a Mark Waid story that missed but otherwise I completely agree. Waid is not ashamed of crafting well thought out adolescent power fantasies and that's what Superman needs more than ever. Some vicarious fun with visceral appeal, the way super hero comics were intended to be made.

    Something that guys like Morrison seem to be incapable of understanding.
    Last edited by The Beast; 03-22-2013 at 11:55 AM.

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