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  1. #181
    Senior Member LEADER DESSLOK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swimmerdude View Post
    The Phoenix is not a confusion issue at all. The confusing part is only when fans confusing themselves, by ignoring huge parts of continuity as it suits them in order to argue online. In UXM 137, the issue where Jean commits suicide, the Watcher states that Jean has become one with a power second only to the creator. Jean herself tells Colossus she understands what she is now. A symbiote. The Phoenix, she says, comes from the cosmos and it provides her lifeforce while she provides a focus for its infinite power. Both Jean and watcher right there are saying the Phoenix is a cosmic entity that Jean is channeling. The official handbook of marvel universe, the dead version, said when Jean achieved her full potential as a psi, it allowed her to tap into the Phoenix force. It further states the Phoenix touches all living beings with the desire to create and destroy. Only Jean's connection to it is much greater.

    Later official handbooks have referred to Jean Grey as the prime host an important part of the Phoenix.
    A basic question: is Jean Grey still alive? Wiki seems to imply that she is...
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  2. #182
    The curious one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swimmerdude View Post
    Everyone grows old and dies, and will be replaced by those newly born into the world. Perhaps that's why there's fear of the youth among every generation as it grows old.
    I don't fear youth and I don't mind being replaced. I'm not to happy with the world anyway and if I could have I would have left the planet long ago. But with the space program dead there's not place to go.

  3. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by LEADER DESSLOK View Post
    A basic question: is Jean Grey still alive? Wiki seems to imply that she is...
    She's been alive since Endsong from 2005 when her body was dragged from her grave and resurrected by the Phoenix. But she's currently in the White Hot Room collecting Phoenix fragments. Or maybe she already has em all. Not too sure on the last part. In any case, she's definitely alive, just not on Earth.

  4. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by swimmerdude View Post
    Later official handbooks have referred to Jean Grey as the prime host an important part of the Phoenix.
    And ultimate broodmare.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_S View Post
    Hate to point it out but that's been said about every generation since the baby boomers. It's gotten worse in my opinion as I agree role models are few and far between. In marvel especially.
    I think Claremont if given a chance could surprise a lot of people.
    we gave him far too many chances already.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturius View Post
    She's been alive since Endsong from 2005 when her body was dragged from her grave and resurrected by the Phoenix. But she's currently in the White Hot Room collecting Phoenix fragments. Or maybe she already has em all. Not too sure on the last part. In any case, she's definitely alive, just not on Earth.
    to call that "alive" is kinda semantics. white hot room is essentially another dimension/heaven, beyond time and possibly space.

  7. #187
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Now, unfortunately for me as a reader, you have a situation where the X-Men are totally public, where they're now merging with all the other teams. The series, the concept, has lost its uniqueness. That which made it fundamentally different from the Fantastic Four, from the Avengers, from even the Defenders -- it's now just another group of committed superheroes. Some of them work with the Avengers, some of them work with the Fantastic Four, some of the Fantastic Four work with them. It's all one big, homogeneous agglomeration, which, for me as a reader, is not that interesting, sadly.
    Quoted for the ever lovin sad truth.

  8. #188
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoseDRivera7 View Post
    During the Civil Rights era there were black celebrities, but that didn't stop racism from occurring.
    True. However, that kind of real world thinking doesn't work and shouldn't be applied to a commercial entertainment franchise like the X-MEN. And remember, mutants have been members of the Avengers over the years. So it is both pointless and stupid to load the Avengers up with X-Men members solely to help improve mutant rights.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    True. However, that kind of real world thinking doesn't work and shouldn't be applied to a commercial entertainment franchise like the X-MEN. And remember, mutants have been members of the Avengers over the years. So it is both pointless and stupid to load the Avengers up with X-Men members solely to help improve mutant rights.
    it's pointless and stupid for the avengers to think they should actively help improve mutant rights? the fact the the rest of the marvel u is now saying to the x-men's cause, yknow, they're right, let's help. pointless?

  10. #190
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brannon View Post
    The "shades of gray" excuse for many modern "super-heroes" is while that's a perfectly valid concept for a character, it's not that great a concept for most super-heroes. Marvel made their name on "flawed" heroes, but they were all good people who did the right thing--regardless of flaws, they were still ideals to aspire to. They, quite simply, were better than us. Characters that are idealist and aspire to be "better" than the average slub that spends all day illegally downloading, watching porn and basically wallowing in their own mediocrity, are no longer tolerated, because, well, moral ambiguity must be universal.

    I like morally ambiguous characters--I'm a fan of Greg House, Conan, Sherlock Holmes, the Puisher, but they lose a lot of their appeal when other archtypes are slowly morphed into something similar. What we have now is an irony. The "shade of gray" thing is becoming just as cliche as the boring boy scout model of the 50's and early 60's. Of course this wouldn't be as big a problem if Marvel and DC fans had more variety in their lives. I have no interest in reading about the current Cyclops. He's unlikable, and to be frank, many characters have been sullied and unlikable since Civil War. It speaks volumes about the fanbase when idealism and aspiring to be something better than average is a pejorative. Retreating to "well, we're more sophisticated now" excuse doesn't fool those among us that know the score.
    Quoted for the ever lovin sad and pathetic truth.

  11. #191
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    claremont is exhibiting alan moore levels of grumpiness and unawareness, basically

  12. #192
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    I always wanted more black characters, but aside from the afro-brazilian Sunspot, they didn't happen under Claremont's tenure.. He didn't create Bishop, incidentally. I was thrown off when he apparently decided to totally ignore the character in X-Men Forever..
    I didn't like it when he turned Bishop from an obvious African American into and Australian Aborigine who was related to gateway. That being said, CC did create a few black mutant heroes of African descent several years ago. He created Shola, Hub,Askari the Spear (who wasn't a mutant),and Storm's daughter from the GENEXT mini series.

  13. #193
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by direction9 View Post
    it's pointless and stupid for the avengers to think they should actively help improve mutant rights? the fact the the rest of the marvel u is now saying to the x-men's cause, yknow, they're right, let's help. pointless?
    Dude, it's a comic you need to suspend disbelief in order for these various franchises to be unique and to stand on their own. Books like UNCANNY AVENGERS are editorially mandated bad fan fiction born out of desperation for a high selling book.
    Last edited by Blade X; 03-24-2013 at 11:24 AM.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    Dude, it's a comic you need to suspend disbelief in order for these various franchises to be unique and to stand on their own. Books like ULTIMATE AVENGERS are editorially mandated bad fan fiction born out of desperation for a high selling book.
    what. explain where i'm refusing to suspend disbelief.
    the franchise isn't less unique today. sentinels are still trying to kill mutants. mutant fear and hate is at high levels right now.
    i fail to see what ultimate avengers has to do with anything.

    edit: plus uncanny avengers was remender's idea i think
    edit2: plus at no point here was marvel desperate

  15. #195
    Senior Member jphamlore's Avatar
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    Actually I believe one of the biggest accomplishments of Quesada's reign is that, even if Marvel had not been bought by Disney, he guaranteed that never again would Marvel be in danger of DC poaching away either writers or artists.

    At one point Marvel was down to almost JMS and writers such as Millar who had left DC / Vertigo after The Authority. But Marvel under Quesada has done a good job of pushing writers such as Bendis.

    It's basically a cycle now which is why I think fans should chill about writers they hate. Marvel has a system of taking a writer and quickly cycling him through major titles and eventually a major crossover, for example, Matt Fraction. (But this was hardly a new thing under Quesada, Marvel trying the major titles part with say Chuck Austen.)

    Now it's Rick Remender's turn to get the big push. Notice how Marvel is doing all it can to make sure his big title Uncanny Avengers is a success.

    Marvel has a system established under Quesada and it seems to be working.

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