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  1. #196
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    To get back on track...

    Hermes in the DCU has been portrayed as the god of, among other things, speed.

    Diana was given speed 'greater than' Hermes and has previously beat him in a foot race before. Whereas you can argue if that's possible, this is in a universe where it is. It was in the masthead of the comic book for decades and was clearly stated in her origin(s) when Hermes was involved.

    I don't care that she can't outrace him now, but that speed shouldn't be enough for him to win the fight. He gets shot by arrows fired by centaurs, so cleary he's not all that fast in combat.

    As to the Zoom fight, it's a pointless argument. If you choose to ignore all of Diana's powers and downplay her as a hero, that's fine. However, given that she has always been portrayed as having one of if not *the* fastest reflexes in the DCU and that those reflexes are a core part of her character (the whole bullets/automatic gunfire/lasers/heat vision/Omega Beams versus bracelets schtick) as is the wisdom of Athena, goddess of strategy, and that she has an unbreakable lasso that can stretch to undefined lengths, then no, I don't see it as out of line that she trashed Zoom.

    I will again point out how normal humans with normal speed using weird yet man-made weapons not at all related to speed (heat, cold, boomerangs) have repeatedly tagged/defeated Flash over the years seems somehow perfectly acceptable while the idea of a gods-gifted, alpha-level, reflex/strategy oriented hero gifted with speed greater than the god of speed taking down Zoom is out of the question seems a bit contradictory.

  2. #197
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    I said something. Someone said that wasn't true and couldn't be find anywhere. I provided with a way of finding it in many places and yes, to prove my position. That's a bad thing because...? Anyway, googling "fastest god in greek mythology" will do the trick too.
    Either way, I really see no point in discussing this any further. I thought this was general knowledge. Where I'm from, Ancient Greek culture is taught in schools. If that doesn't happen in the US, fine. But I didn't invent the "fast as the wind" thing (which in itself pretty much proves my point without me having to re-read a pretty big book). Either you think I'm wrong or not, we can still be friends.
    I believe the point that Javier and others are trying to make is that there are no myths where Hermes accomplished a task by use of superspeed. Invisibility, sneakiness, and cunning? Yup. He's the god of thieves. Outracing an opponent or stealing something so fast others can't see it? Don't recall any myths like that, and Javier was asking for you to supply just one example of a myth where he did anything other than travel between two places quickly.

    Btw, Americans are taught Greek mythology and I learned them in Latin as well. Ovid was the bane of my existence ;)

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    As to the Zoom fight, it's a pointless argument. If you choose to ignore all of Diana's powers and downplay her as a hero, that's fine. However, given that she has always been portrayed as having one of if not *the* fastest reflexes in the DCU and that those reflexes are a core part of her character (the whole bullets/automatic gunfire/lasers/heat vision/Omega Beams versus bracelets schtick) as is the wisdom of Athena, goddess of strategy, and that she has an unbreakable lasso that can stretch to undefined lengths, then no, I don't see it as out of line that she trashed Zoom.
    Yes, it is completely out of line.
    Do you have any idea how Zoom powers work? Because he's not fast, he lives out of time. There's no way that he could possibly be caught by WW, no matter how fast her reflexes are. Unless, of course, you're implying she's as fast as the Flash. And she's not. Really. The Flash takes his powers from something called the Speed Force, so let's just prevent that discussion in case you're considering going that way.

  4. #199
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    Yes, it is completely out of line.
    Do you have any idea how Zoom powers work? Because he's not fast, he lives out of time. There's no way that he could possibly be caught by WW, no matter how fast her reflexes are. Unless, of course, you're implying she's as fast as the Flash. And she's not. Really. The Flash takes his powers from something called the Speed Force, so let's just prevent that discussion in case you're considering going that way.
    Yes, I know where the Flash gets his powers.

    Yes, Diana's *reflexes* are superspeed fast. Always have been. Her senses are so sharp that she can hear/feel a bullet/laser/heat vision and react before it can strike her. She is gifted with superior strategy by the goddess of wisdom/war/strategy and with speed by the god of speed.

    So long as Zoom makes noise (breathes, has a heart beat, has a footstep) or displaces the air when he moves, she can sense him coming.

    You can choose to ignore this, but that doesn't mean it isn't true ;)

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I believe the point that Javier and others are trying to make is that there are no myths where Hermes accomplished a task by use of superspeed. Invisibility, sneakiness, and cunning? Yup. He's the god of thieves. Outracing an opponent or stealing something so fast others can't see it? Don't recall any myths like that, and Javier was asking for you to supply just one example of a myth where he did anything other than travel between two places quickly.

    Btw, Americans are taught Greek mythology and I learned them in Latin as well. Ovid was the bane of my existence ;)
    I'm done with this discussion. The myths exist. Search through that book or any other book. Most of the times his speed is relevant in myths centered on other gods or demi-gods.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Yes, I know where the Flash gets his powers.

    Yes, Diana's *reflexes* are superspeed fast. Always have been. Her senses are so sharp that she can hear/feel a bullet/laser/heat vision and react before it can strike her. She is gifted with superior strategy by the goddess of wisdom/war/strategy and with speed by the god of speed.

    You can choose to ignore this, but that doesn't mean it isn't true ;)
    ...
    No. But if you like to think she's faster than the guy living outside of time or the guy that has acess to the speed force and ignore everything that was ever written about the Flash universe, cool.

  7. #202
    CBR Mod/WW Section Mom Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    ...
    No. But if you like to think she's faster than the guy living outside of time or the guy that has acess to the speed force and ignore everything that was ever written about the Flash universe, cool.
    Yeah, you're right. How could Wonder Woman ever catch anyone like the Flash with her lasso...

    Oh wait...


  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Yeah, you're right. How could Wonder Woman ever catch anyone like the Flash with her lasso...

    Oh wait...

    Ok, last one because you just proved me right. You have no idea how any of the powers in the Flash universe works. I've said many times already, WW can't catch Zoom not because he's fast, but because he's out of time. You do realize that those are completely different things, right?
    And with this, I'm out. Goodbye.

  9. #204
    Senior Member darkseidpwns's Avatar
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    The level of ignorance here when it comes to Zoom is truly mind boggling,it's like trying to fight hyperinflation.

  10. #205
    Ghostly Roboto Ebon Phantom's Avatar
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    My two cents: I figured since Diana wasn't seriously attempting to hurt Hermes, that's why he was able to get an edge over her a few times. I mean, she really didn't seem like she was worried that she couldn't win.

  11. #206
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    Ok, last one because you just proved me right. You have no idea how any of the powers in the Flash universe works. I've said many times already, WW can't catch Zoom not because he's fast, but because he's out of time. You do realize that those are completely different things, right?
    And with this, I'm out. Goodbye.
    Its a magic lasso assume that it can traverse time.
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  12. #207
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    Ok, last one because you just proved me right. You have no idea how any of the powers in the Flash universe works. I've said many times already, WW can't catch Zoom not because he's fast, but because he's out of time. You do realize that those are completely different things, right?
    And with this, I'm out. Goodbye.
    The very fact that Zoom is not fast is what defeats him.

    I've been reading up on Zoom. Jay Garrick explains that me moves outside of time - he can control how fast time moves around him. But essentially he reacts in his timeline as fast as a regular human.

    This is backed up by Thomas Wayne stabbing him in Flashpoint. He only has his human reactions. He cannot feel the knife touch his back and then change time to move aside - or rather, his reactions do not allow him to do it fast enough. Caught by surprise, the knife impales him before he can adjust and he is taken down.

    If you look at the pic of Diana kicking the rockes at Zoom, we have an elevated position. Diana is kicking the rocks in a flat plane. Her lasso is thrown to her left, as the rocks accelerate towards Zoom and after they are kicked. They are blocking his line of sight to Diana's rope hand. Diana throws the lasso much faster than the rocks because it must travel almost the same distance in a much shorter amount of time.

    Not realizing what Diana is doing, he adjusts his timeline to move past the rocks, which are all travelling at the same speed but are launced individually one behind the other In other words, the first rock heads towards Zoom and he steps to his right, evading it but putting in the path of the next rock, and so on. Diana is herding him to her left. towards the rope. As he moves, confident in his abilities, he remains unaware the lasso is travelling in that direction as his line of sight is blocked by the flying rubble. He only sees the lasso as he steps to his right [Diana's left] to evade the final projectile.

    At this point, Zoom can possibly see the lasso moving, but like the knife he cannot adjust his time power quickly enough to compensate. Inertia acts as it must to keep him travelling to his right, into the path of the rope. Essentially he trips into it. Diana uses a combination of strategy and speed to outfox him, and Zooms human reflexes are not enough to save him as the rope snaps tight before he can reset the flow of time around him.

    You're a wonder, Wonder Woman
    Last edited by brettc1; 03-24-2013 at 01:04 AM.
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  13. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post

    This is backed up by Thomas Wayne stabbing him in Flashpoint. He only has him human reactions. He cannot feel the knife touch his back and then change time to move aside. Caught by surprise, he is taken down.
    Wrong Zoom. That was Professor Zoom. And bad writing.
    BB

  14. #209
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Batson View Post
    Wrong Zoom. That was Professor Zoom. And bad writing.
    Either way, the explanation remains sound.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  15. #210
    Senior Member Boonciaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Yeah, you're right. How could Wonder Woman ever catch anyone like the Flash with her lasso...

    Oh wait...

    In Bruce Kent's defense, you can't always use these comic book scans to prove anything as they can at times be illogical.

    If we go by certain comic scans to prove points then Batman can easily beat both Wonder Woman & Cheetah:





    It's funny, we Wonder Woman fans hate it when we see comic book scans of illogical things that shouldn't happen to characters from our mythos (like the two scans I've posted), yet we'll be the first to use illogical scans (like the WW vs. Zoom or the scan you posted) to back up and prove our points against other fandoms.
    Last edited by Boonciaver; 03-24-2013 at 03:08 AM.
    "People don't actually like Wonder Woman. They like the idea in their head of what a "wonder woman" ought to be, which usually bears little resemblance to the character in the comics." - JKCarrier

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