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  1. #46
    Blind Resolve Hazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Sterling View Post
    15 million degrees kelvin, pressures in the 250 billion atmospheres, 90 billion H-bombs every second energy output.

    Not even considering the radiation etc...

    So basically they aren't affecting a human sized object, because you said so?

    XD
    Not, I said a human sized target won't take all of it.

    Basically, if you stand at the center of the sun, did you take all the energy? No, because there is still energy. The sun keeps shining and so forth.

    A small target won't take it all that, because the energy is all around him and going outward to the other parts of the sun. If he took it all there wouldn't still be energy.

    Thing is the energy is spread over such a large area, that a small target literally can't take it all.

    Don't get me wrong the sun is awesome, but all that energy is spread over a too large area.

    Edit: On the flipside, the bigger the target is the more energy it will take because it has a larger area.
    Last edited by Hazard; 03-16-2013 at 02:07 PM.

  2. #47
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazard View Post
    Not, I said a human sized target won't take all of it.

    Basically, if you stand at the center of the sun, did you take all the energy? No, because there is still energy. The sun keeps shining and so forth.

    A small target won't take it all that, because the energy is all around him and going outward to the other parts of the sun. If he took it all there wouldn't still be energy.

    Thing is the energy is spread over such a large area, that a small target literally can't take it all.

    Don't get me wrong the sun is awesome, but all that energy is spread over a too large area.

    Edit: On the flipside, the bigger the target is the more energy it will take because it has a larger area.
    Actually, it's even worse than that. Max is right about one thing: The size of the person is irrelevant. He remains incorrect about the Star's size not mattering of course.

    Take Superman as an example, ignoring his photosynthetic properties for the moment and focusing on straight durability.

    If Superman has a durability of X, defined as sufficient to survive within the Sun, then every square inch of his body can be said to be resisting a quantity of energy we can define as Y.

    Presuming we then take a giant Superman with 100 times the surface area but the same level of durability, every square inch of his body is still resisting Y energy, due to having the property of X durability.

    In either case the totality of the Sun remains irrelevant. Only the parts of it touching his skin and imparting Y energy per square inch. Were Superman to bloat into a spherical Kryptonian several million miles in diameter, he would still have the entire Star failing to scratch his skin due to being overly diffuse.
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  3. #48
    Blind Resolve Hazard's Avatar
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    Times like this I'm reminded that your Science! is greater than mine.

  4. #49
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Or to summarize, the three relevant characteristics are durability per unit of area (x), total energy of assault or hazard (y) and area energy is spread over (z).

    In order to achieve destruction, the equation is not merely y > x, but rather (y/z) > x.
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  5. #50
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    it's less complicated than that. Kiblasts usually aren't very hot. some are, like the dodon ray and tribeam. but the sun is very hot

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1505627 View Post
    it's less complicated than that. Kiblasts usually aren't very hot. some are, like the dodon ray and tribeam. but the sun is very hot
    I think that, when dealing with things that can vaporize people/objects/cities/moons/planets/etc..., a certain degree of heat may be needed.
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Sterling View Post
    Makes perfect sense, as merely getting too near the sun would vaporize planets, the core itself outputs enough energy to easily be laughably beyond trivial planet busting, and if you are inside the sun it's that energy from all directions at once non stop. Plus the pressures, heat, radiation etc.
    Actually, not to pretty much all of the above.

    A Sol type stellar core does not output anything near planet vaporizing (never mind planet busting) power.

  8. #53
    Ace wingman Max Sterling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estrecca View Post
    Actually, not to pretty much all of the above.

    A Sol type stellar core does not output anything near planet vaporizing (never mind planet busting) power.

    Except it does, merely by temperature alone, or pressure, etc etc

    Not even taking into account it's energy output.

  9. #54
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estrecca View Post
    Actually, not to pretty much all of the above.

    A Sol type stellar core does not output anything near planet vaporizing (never mind planet busting) power.
    Honestly, I don't have a clue how long it'd take the Sun to boil an Earth-like planet that was plunged into it, so I declined to comment due to lack of sufficient information.

    I do vaguely recall seeing some physicists who seemed to know what they were talking about discussing the Death Star though, and saying it'd take more energy output than the entire Sun to get that kind of near-instant destruction of a planet to happen as seen on screen.
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  10. #55
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    Given this is the DBZ-verse it's completely possible their sun is just super powerful compared to ours. They have rabbits(or penguins?) living on the moon(the same moon that can be destroyed seemingly without any ill effects to the planet) so who knows?
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  11. #56
    Blind Resolve Hazard's Avatar
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    @ Omegalith: Really? I was kind of wondering just how much it would take to blow up a planet. Didn't look for it or try to calc it because... that's a bit too much even for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    Given this is the DBZ-verse it's completely possible their sun is just super powerful compared to ours. They have rabbits(or penguins?) living on the moon(the same moon that can be destroyed seemingly without any ill effects to the planet) so who knows?
    So their Sun is actually a Super Sun 3 after going on its training trip.

    The moon is the Yamcha. Obviously.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Sterling View Post
    Except it does, merely by temperature alone, or pressure, etc etc

    Not even taking into account it's energy output.
    The energy output of the sun is 3.84E26 watts.

    This is not enough to even melt Earth in short order, never mind vaporize.

    And you are going to need literally hundreds of hours for it to put out enough energy to overcome Earth's gravitational binding energy, which is what we typically call planet busting over here.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazard View Post
    @ Omegalith: Really? I was kind of wondering just how much it would take to blow up a planet. Didn't look for it or try to calc it because... that's a bit too much even for me.
    For an Earth like world, Curtis Saxton came up with 2.4E32 joules, minimum, back in the day. I checked both the formula and the calculations back when I was more invested in the Star Wars side of debating and it checks out.

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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazard View Post
    Well damn.
    Yeah. The Death Star going with his (somewhat generous) assumptions for the Alderaan kaboom clocks at around the 1E38 range. Mike Wong put it best a while back:

    The absolute minimum energy requirement for destroying an Earth-like planet is roughly 5E16 megatons. This is 500 million times the K-T extinction asteroid impact (and hundreds of millions of times the firepower of an individual ISD or Shadow planet-killer). However, this does not even come close to the firepower of a Death Star. 5E16 megatons would just barely overcome gravity, and the planet would expand so slowly that it takes ten minutes to double in size. Obviously, the destruction of Alderaan exceeded this quantity by many orders of magnitude. In fact, an energy estimate derived from Alderaan's rate of expansion leads to an estimate in the 1E22 megaton range (yes, that's at least 100 trillion times the K-T extinction asteroid impact, or as much energy as our Sun has generated since the time of Moses).

    Of course, there have been unending arguments about direct energy transfer vs funky technobabble, but assuming the 1E38 joules to be good and valid, "everything the sun has put out since Moses" is the right kind of analogy for such madness.

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