Ultimate X-Men #24 Discussion/Spoilers

[Vidocq]

This discussion has made me curious about what does the average Ultimates resident of the United States know about mutants. I freely confess to not knowing the answer, please enlighten me so I don't blatantly contradict what has been firmly established.

1) I'm assuming the average US resident knows about Magneto's role in Ultimatum; therefore giving an explanation for some of the hatred by many towards all mutants.

They do.

2) Does the average US resident know that the mutations leading to mutants were created by humans as weapons in government labs?

Yes.

3) What does the average US resident know about the origin of the Nimrod Sentinels or what caused them to attack humans?

They know that they went rogue thanks to the Stryker and there are some that agree with him.

4) Does the average US resident know anything about the role of William Stryker, Jr., in the attack of the Nimrod Sentinels or that he was a mutant?

Not that he was a mutant, but they know that he caused the attack.

5) Does the average US resident know about the new regime in Tian, the powers that its people have developed, or that they are welcoming mutants seeking asylum? Is the average resident aware of the virus that previous to Divided We Fall disabled mutant genes in many? I'm assuming it is known the numbers of powered mutants are now less than the number of giant pandas in captivity in today's world.

They know about the virus, as it was heavily publicised, but there has been little mention of Tian in all the Game of Thrones-y stuff so my guess is that only SHIELD and the Ultimates are fully aware of it outside Tian itself. Edit: Or apparently they do, no one has been talking that much about it's status in the book itself though.

[Robbie_Jee]

No offense, man, but it seemed like you were arguing against any theory that went against yours. Ah well, technically this discussion is supposed to be about #24, not #1-12 anyway :P

No, that wasn't my intention at all.

All of the visions were a result of Apocalypse. But if you want to think that some are and some aren't, I'm happy if you choose to believe that. :)

But thank you for being so polite. That's very sound. You seem pretty level headed and well mannered.

I'm perfectly ok if you and Plawsky want to believe that some of the visions during Spencer's run were Apocalypse and that some weren't. But the way I read it, Apocalypse was behind everything. I think that is why the last few pages of #12 were shown linking everything up.

[briancwood]

Yeah, that's weird how that works. So does this mean you're currently writing #29 or 30 or so? Or do the solicits for June sort of jump the gun?Basically I'm asking if the issues that get solicited each month (for 3 months in the future) are already written or if you're in the process of writing them? It must also get really confusing for you (and any writer for that matter) because at any given time you're actually further ahead in the future than everyone else in the world in terms of continuity.

Not confusing, this is just how comics work: you write ahead of the print date, and as far ahead as possible. And yeah, right now I'm writing #28 and #29 (at the same time, another quirk of comics when you have multiple artists and/or double ship months. I'm also outlining #30-33, which is the full World War X arc (incl #29)

Sometimes solicits are written based on actual known events in the comics, but since solicits are due 3-4 months before printing, sometimes they are educated guesses or just very general information.

In the case I stated, I had to start my run while Nick was still finishing his up, to keep both artists working and to give me a little lead time to get up to speed.

b

[Robbie_Jee]

World War X! I really like that title. Brian, can you confirm that that's the official title for X-War?

[briancwood]

World War X! I really like that title. Brian, can you confirm that that's the official title for X-War?

Yeah, it was X-War for a long time, but recently was changed.

b

[Robbie_Jee]

Yeah, it was X-War for a long time, but recently was changed.

b

Sick. Thanks very much.

[sage6paths]

Sick. Thanks very much.

I like it too. I can't wait to see the design for the side banner. Also I can see the story now. Kitty vs Nomi vs Jean Grey. All of a sudden ZOMBIES! (World War Z reference) That would be pretty cool.

[LJ-90]

I like it too. I can't wait to see the design for the side banner. Also I can see the story now. Kitty vs Nomi vs Jean Grey. All of a sudden ZOMBIES! (World War Z reference) That would be pretty cool.

I want to see Dereck or Liz vs Jimmy, just because in my head they will reference they're (Short) time together as part of Ultimate X. Also I kinda wonder who would win in a fight.

[robcastor729]

Has anyone heard if they are planning on using what happens to Jimmy over in Ultimate Comics Wolverine miniseries in Ultimate Comics X-Men?

[refrax5]

Here's the thing I want to also point out. I highly doubt any of this has to do with Apocalypse. And here's why:

- Brian Wood spent an hour on the phone with Nick Spencer and STILL couldn't understand the complicated plot and twists therein. Which means it was something so confusing that even another talented writer wanted to avoid delving in. I'm sure Brian read the same issue #12 that we all did, which seemed to make it explicitly clear that it was in fact Apocalypse running the show, and yet he had to discuss it with Nick and in the end it still didn't make sense to him. This tells me that the Apocalypse reveal at the end of #12 was just another herring, along with the reveal of Xavier, Magneto and Cyclops.

- Brian said that even giving this story another 12 issues would be "rushing it", which means this story still had another 2 years worth of progression and twists. In which case revealing the main antagonist 1/3 of the way through seems very sloppy, especially with a sophisticated writer such as Nick Spencer who literally builds twists on top of other twists (Have you read Morning Glories?).

- The fact that we saw the Apocalyps mannequin rather than the real thing implies that Sinister is just seeing illusions like everyone else, which means he is seeing someone he cares about, like how Rogue saw Xavier, Havok saw Scott, Stryker saw his father and Pietro saw Wanda and Magneto.

- Fans started speculating on Apocalypse as early as issue #2 with the caves. Why on earth would Nick Spencer plan a three year confusing plot if he was just going to hand out the answers in issue #2 of 36? He loved handing out red herrings and cliffhangers. The fact that the Sinister and Apocalypse dummy reveal happened right at the end of his run seems to trick people into thinking it was THE BIG REVEAL, when more likely it was just another little one.

It seems that issue #12 ended with just another "holy shit a character is seeing and speaking with another character who's supposed to be dead" moment. There more than likely was some HIGHER power that was working and manipulating everybody, including Sinister. And I'm willing to bet it was going to be a completely new villain.

Yeah, we don't actually know if it was Apocalypse or not, but there is some logic behind it. The monologue at the end was clearly about the last time Apocalypse came and the Phoenix destroyed him and just reset everything so it was like he never existed and the person narrating was saying that it would all be set back the way it was supposed to be before Phoenix tampered with everything. It seems like that's something Apocalypse would WANT to do, but, as you said, it just as easily could have been a new villain.

EDIT: Sorry for that long, rambling sentence.

[DoctorOak]

Still not impressed with this book, to be honest.

The characterisation is still incredibly bland and lacking in anything to do with who these characters were before Wood started writing them. The plot is moving ridiculously slowly (and to no significant end, it seems) and still remains entirely lacking in any action or, well, anything mutanty. Everyone seems to be more concerned with who's sleeping with whom or who doesn't like whom than the fact they're a bunch of mutants with awesome powers (thank you Wolverine #1 and #2 for finally bringing some mutant action back to life). And, worst of all, it just doesn't make any sense. Everyone in the entire world seems literally out just to kill Kitty Pryde. Basically none of these people have given us a single indication of any motive - just that they must see her dead.

Worst amongst all this (because shady Government people wanting to kill people can be waved off as such, really, and while Psylocke still doesn't make any damned sense, at least the writing is leaning into explaining that Nomi is just a completely deranged psychopathic teenager [though it doesn't explain why anyone else is putting up with her]) is Karen/Jean. Despite the fact that her role in Tian has never actually really been explained (yet another plot thread that Wood abandoned instantly), the idea that she's suddenly out to not only attack fellow mutants but fellow X-Men makes absolutely no sense at all. It's literally the most wildly out of character thing in a book full of characters being unrecognisably out of character already.

I really must be reading a completely separate book than Plawsky, or anyone else claiming this to be one of the best in the entire X-Men run, because I really cannot see it at all. I've given Wood plenty of opportunity to take his set up (which was incredibly forced and a bit of a turgid plot concept anyway, but it could have worked out in the end) and deliver something spectacular with it in time. It's been 12 issues and nothing of the sort has happened. The previous 12 were not perfect, but I can safely say it was a far more enjoyable run than this one and the plot was going in a much better direction.

I really hope Wood's next on the chopping block so we can get back on track with this book as we are with the Ultimates.

[jphamlore]

In Mark Millar's 1985, Millar captures what it feels like to be a kid reading comics, when Toby is so full of excitement after reading the issue in Secret Wars that ends with Doom stealing the power of the Beyonder and ANYTHING seems possible. Some of the greatest joy is the agony and the anticipation while waiting many days, or maybe forever, to read what actually did happen, for what does happen especially to Doom must eventually disappoint.

So for the Spencer run that will never be finished, I present the universal explanation of much of modern US science fiction, including Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica. The driver, the cause of miracles, is the collective unconscious. In the case of Ultimate X-Men, the losses were so staggering after Ultimatum, the challenges so overwhelming, that I speculate collectively, perhaps knitted together by Jean / Karen, the characters who are having hallucinations of the dead talking to them have unconsciously united to create a mass illusion.

But as in the message of Battlestar Galactica, life must somehow go on despite the losses. So that is why there has to be a multi-year journey until the characters realize the truth, that they can go on without their heroes, their gods, who are gone forever, and then the illusion is broken.