Ultimate X-Men #24 Discussion/Spoilers

[Wolverine12]

I have been thinking of getting back into the ultimate x-men, is this a good point to jump on board?

Woods run is basically a fresh start, I believe he started on issue 13. Definitely worth checking out.

[Robbie_Jee]

Uh She has that in 616

I'm not interested in 616.

[Filip]

I have been thinking of getting back into the ultimate x-men, is this a good point to jump on board?

Yes, it is! Just go for it, I'm certain you won't be left indifferent.

Woods run is basically a fresh start, I believe he started on issue 13. Definitely worth checking out.

Yes, I started with 13. Phenomenal so far.

[refrax5]

I wasn't hired to continue Nick's stories. It's not for me to say why, but early on I took a pretty critical look at those first 7-8 issues (which is all that had been released at that point in time), spent a good hour on the phone with Nick, and talked to the editors about what I felt like I could bring to the table and what I couldn't.

Honestly, Nick is the sort of writer that plans out things YEARS into the future. The groundwork he laid in the first 12 issues was just the first part of this very complex story that I honestly think only he could have finished. As an incoming writer, even if it was within my capabilities to pick up another person's story and execute it per spec and in their absence, its just not what I want to do. Why would I? I have my own ideas, I'm not a ghost writer. So I presented my ideas, pitched them, and was hired.

I get why that burns some readers. I don't know what the alternative is, except to have kept Nick on the book for the 36 or 48 issues his plan would have required. But the decision not to do that was made not only several pay grades over my head, but before I even showed up.

b

I didn't mean to impy you had to follow his story that was taking years. I simply meant that it's crappy to have it established that Havok has been kidnapped and Apocalypse is out there, people are seeing these visions and then it to just go away. Some kind of resolution to it would have been nice. It just sucks to know, in-universe, this stuff is going on but for whatever reason, nothing is coming of it. I wasn't thrilled that Johnny was built up as a member of the group and suddenly dropped.

Coming up with your own resolution is preferable to all of it just being ignored. A lot of the plot threads in this series were started by other writers. I wasn't implying that you just ape Spencer's plans, any more than you're aping Hickman's stuff by having Tian in the story or following Loeb by using Jimmy Hudson or referencing Karen Grant. Those things were established as being part of the overall universe and storyline and you jumped off from there. Same with Colossus and Storm being picked up from where they were, etc.

Maybe my issue is with the editors. Either way, I just hate that this huge thread is just left dangling.

[refrax5]

I get why you didn't continue Spencer's plots. It's a totally valid reason. Also, how many times have other writers picked up plots that other writers were unable to finish only for us to gripe about what could have been or how the outcome changed. (i.e., Lobdell leaving GenX in the hands of Raab)

I have faith that Wood can make it all make sense in his own way and if you're not happy that Spencer's plots were dropped then stop reading the book. Or like some of you here have shamelessly admitted "will continue to just read spoilers".

I stated that there were a lot of things I liked about the book as well, if you noticed. I've read the entirety of UXM from the beginning. I think it's a bit silly for someone to bring up a fair criticism and have it responded to with, "Well, if you don't like it, don't read it!" Come on.

[Balfro]

I wasn't hired to continue Nick's stories. It's not for me to say why, but early on I took a pretty critical look at those first 7-8 issues (which is all that had been released at that point in time), spent a good hour on the phone with Nick, and talked to the editors about what I felt like I could bring to the table and what I couldn't.

Honestly, Nick is the sort of writer that plans out things YEARS into the future. The groundwork he laid in the first 12 issues was just the first part of this very complex story that I honestly think only he could have finished. As an incoming writer, even if it was within my capabilities to pick up another person's story and execute it per spec and in their absence, its just not what I want to do. Why would I? I have my own ideas, I'm not a ghost writer. So I presented my ideas, pitched them, and was hired.

I get why that burns some readers. I don't know what the alternative is, except to have kept Nick on the book for the 36 or 48 issues his plan would have required. But the decision not to do that was made not only several pay grades over my head, but before I even showed up.

b

That's perfectly understandable. Obviously when you pick up a pencil (or start clicking on a keyboard) you want to let your own creative juices flow, rather than work in the confines of your predecessor's vision. As a graphic designer I sort of go through the same thing when a client comes to me and wants me to rebrand their company. I'd much rather start from scratch and come up with a good design for a logo rather than just tweak their existing one. I know it's not exactly the same thing, but it sort of follows a similar rule.

However, I agree that it is sort of frustrating that plot points get left open-ended and are ignored or forgotten. Keep in mind that as a fan in the active community we are informed by you as to why that story is not continuing, however other fans that read the book but have no interest in communicating in forums or browsing comic news websites are buying each issue wondering when the heck Sinister or Havok are going to be showing up again and probably checking their covers to make sure they are still buying the same series that they were reading for the first 12 issues.

It's like if the third Back to the Future had Marty and the Doc adventuring in the 1920's instead of the Wild West, which was established at the end of the second one, because the writer decided he'd rather tell that story instead. It just makes no sense.

Now in your case, it's easily excusable because the stories you've given us have been fantastic. And to be honest, as much as I loved Nick Spencer's run, it was kind of strange with the "ghosts" and whatnot. So who knows if that story would have ended up being better or worse had it continued. The story of the mutants in Utopia has been amazing because it's so unlike anything you could find in 616 (at least, I'm assuming). That being said, I do kinda miss the X-Men in New York. The desert or jungle are great and all, but I think the one thing the book is missing is tall buildings and civilians. Having the mutants so far out there all alone you have to keep thinking of interesting ways for threats to come to them, rather than the threat being present in a large city all the time.

[Plawsky]

I get - to an extent - the frustration about some of Spencer's plotlines being dropped. I too would love to see more from the Apocalypse story.

However, people seem to forgetting that Wood IS running with some of Spencer's plots. Not only is his team focusing on Kitty just like Spencer's, but her narration in issue #13 ("the most wanted terrorist" stuff) is a direct callback to Spencer's first issue. He also finished up the Sentinel/Stryker storyline with DWF/UWS and gave some closure to Storm and Colossus escaping Camp Angel. Plus, we now have Tian and Jean Grey coming back into play.

While a lot of the stuff in Wood's run - especially the characters - is new, there's a bunch of direct influence from the 12 issues that came before. It's not as though issue #13 opened with Bobby and Rogue suddenly reopening the Xavier school without mentioning what had just happened.

Sure, it's too bad that we couldn't see the rest of Spencer's story. But with the way it ended, it's something that could still be out there. Wood established that Rogue's head is clear, and everyone else has been unseen since then, so there's no reason it couldn't be picked up later. We'll see if Bunn or Fialkov, who will both be writing Quicksilver, address his visions at all.

[Balfro]

I get - to an extent - the frustration about some of Spencer's plotlines being dropped. I too would love to see more from the Apocalypse story.

However, people seem to forgetting that Wood IS running with some of Spencer's plots. Not only is his team focusing on Kitty just like Spencer's, but her narration in issue #13 ("the most wanted terrorist" stuff) is a direct callback to Spencer's first issue. He also finished up the Sentinel/Stryker storyline with DWF/UWS and gave some closure to Storm and Colossus escaping Camp Angel. Plus, we now have Tian and Jean Grey coming back into play.

While a lot of the stuff in Wood's run - especially the characters - is new, there's a bunch of direct influence from the 12 issues that came before. It's not as though issue #13 opened with Bobby and Rogue suddenly reopening the Xavier school without mentioning what had just happened.

Sure, it's too bad that we couldn't see the rest of Spencer's story. But with the way it ended, it's something that could still be out there. Wood established that Rogue's head is clear, and everyone else has been unseen since then, so there's no reason it couldn't be picked up later. We'll see if Bunn or Fialkov, who will both be writing Quicksilver, address his visions at all.

Yes that's the one thing I forgot to mention; the fact that its still a possibility to see the outcome of what Spencer started. Seeing Pietro once again coming into the spotlight gives me hope, but in all honesty I'm just happy to see him, even if his visions get dropped.

[RoguefanAM]

I think that the plotlines are pretty interesting and while I don't mean to be overly critical of Wood, it does bother me that he basically just dropped a bunch of things because he...well, he's more or less said he isn't interested and doesn't want to follow up another writer's ideas. Which I understand to a degree, it is kind of weak for people who are reading the series prior to that person and are invested in it. And it's just crappy from a narrative perspective that major plotlines just go away with no reason. I guess Apocalypse just got bored and decided not to attack?

And yeah, it's a bunch of c-list characters. That CAN be really cool sometimes, but I just don't really care about any of these kids. I like Storm and Jimmy and Bobby are ok, but I just feel kind of bored by them. I feel like....if you aren't going to at least address what came before, why are you doing a serialized comic book series in the first place? The whole series is, quite literally, following other writers' ideas.

They're c-list characters because they never got the exposure and development that the other leads got. You need time to be established as someone important to the MU. And it's helps being popular, because that means more exposure. Thus Wolverine getting stuffed into the leadership role in the 616 even if the character himself is a self-described loner and isn't the most natural fit for the position.

But honestly I'm tired of Wolverine and Cyclops, they don't need to lead the X-men for it feel like X-men. And I don't want them back. Storm lead in the 80s fine and everyone identified that as the main X-team, with Cyclops and Professor X mostly out of the picture, as well as selling extremely well (for the time).

I wouldn't classify Storm, Jean and Rogue as c-list anyway. Not A-list like the big 6 (Hulk, Thor, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Captain A, Iron Man), but not c-list. They're 3 of the most recognizable female characters in the MU and have been in numerous movies, cartoons and video games. http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=43965 Meanwhile Kitty, Iceman, Colossus, etc... maybe are c-list, but even they have crossed into other media and the first two are going to appear in a box office movie next year as important characters (Days of Future Past + Kitty = ?).

I think Kitty just feels weird in the leadership role because she hasn't done much in the 616 for some time and she's so young compared to Tony and Steve. Storm or Jean would've felt more natural to be honest, but Kitty's okay and different. She just needs more time to be really recognized as a influential leader of the mutants with the readership.

[Robbie_Jee]

I agree that we need Apocalypse to come back some time in the near future. I'm one of this forum's biggest supporters of that pending storyline. My main reason for wanting it so badly, is that DWF/UWS doesn't really make much sense without it. The rest of my thoughts have already been said very accurately by the posters above, so I shan't repeat what they've already said. (Well said, guys). I too can't wait to see Quicksilver again and get some explanation surrounding his previous motivations. An Ultimate Age of Apocalypse would be epic. Fingers crossed it'll start to come to fruition after X-War.

[briancwood]

to Balfro and Refrax5 - like I said, I get it. Totally understand where you, and others, are coming from. My post is as straightforward as I could make it.

b

[Spekstar]

I'm particularly fond of Owl Hisako (seen during Sentinel battle).
She's like a Pokemon master.

New idea for an ultimate mini:

PIKA PIKA HISAKO!


make it happen mr. Wood!

[Robbie_Jee]

to Balfro and Refrax5 - like I said, I get it. Totally understand where you, and others, are coming from. My post is as straightforward as I could make it.

b

We both appreciate and respect your honesty Brian, and we also thank you for it. Keep up the good work. Your recent issue was RIDICULOUSLY good and I can't wait for the next.

[refrax5]

I get - to an extent - the frustration about some of Spencer's plotlines being dropped. I too would love to see more from the Apocalypse story.

However, people seem to forgetting that Wood IS running with some of Spencer's plots. Not only is his team focusing on Kitty just like Spencer's, but her narration in issue #13 ("the most wanted terrorist" stuff) is a direct callback to Spencer's first issue. He also finished up the Sentinel/Stryker storyline with DWF/UWS and gave some closure to Storm and Colossus escaping Camp Angel. Plus, we now have Tian and Jean Grey coming back into play.

While a lot of the stuff in Wood's run - especially the characters - is new, there's a bunch of direct influence from the 12 issues that came before. It's not as though issue #13 opened with Bobby and Rogue suddenly reopening the Xavier school without mentioning what had just happened.

Sure, it's too bad that we couldn't see the rest of Spencer's story. But with the way it ended, it's something that could still be out there. Wood established that Rogue's head is clear, and everyone else has been unseen since then, so there's no reason it couldn't be picked up later. We'll see if Bunn or Fialkov, who will both be writing Quicksilver, address his visions at all.

That was my point, actually. Wood HAS followed a lot of Spencer's set up and ideas. He's taken them in his own direction, of course, which is what I'd expect. I wouldn't expect him to just write Spencer's story, just to use what's been established to follow it with his own take. I think Wood's run is overall better than Spencer's, truthfully, but I would like to see that plotline resolved. And I like Havok as a character more than pretty much anyone else in this series.

[refrax5]

They're c-list characters because they never got the exposure and development that the other leads got. You need time to be established as someone important to the MU. And it's helps being popular, because that means more exposure. Thus Wolverine getting stuffed into the leadership role in the 616 even if the character himself is a self-described loner and isn't the most natural fit for the position.

But honestly I'm tired of Wolverine and Cyclops, they don't need to lead the X-men for it feel like X-men. And I don't want them back. Storm lead in the 80s fine and everyone identified that as the main X-team, with Cyclops and Professor X mostly out of the picture, as well as selling extremely well (for the time).

I wouldn't classify Storm, Jean and Rogue as c-list anyway. Not A-list like the big 6 (Hulk, Thor, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Captain A, Iron Man), but not c-list. They're 3 of the most recognizable female characters in the MU and have been in numerous movies, cartoons and video games. http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=43965 Meanwhile Kitty, Iceman, Colossus, etc... maybe are c-list, but even they have crossed into other media and the first two are going to appear in a box office movie next year as important characters (Days of Future Past + Kitty = ?).

I think Kitty just feels weird in the leadership role because she hasn't done much in the 616 for some time and she's so young compared to Tony and Steve. Storm or Jean would've felt more natural to be honest, but Kitty's okay and different. She just needs more time to be really recognized as a influential leader of the mutants with the readership.

Like I said, I think C list characters CAN be awesome and I don't need Cyclops and I especially don't need Wolverine to be at the center of the X-world. Killing Ultimate Wolverine was one of the things in Ultimatum I actually liked. That was kind of a ballsy move, I thought.

It's more just that I don't find this crew inherently interesting. Jimmy is okay and has potential and I like the others alright, but there's no real character I gravitate towards. I wish Colossus was around more. I wish we could have characters like Havok (a c-lister I actually kinda like) be a part of the group. But while the story is interesting, I just can't bring myself to care that much about Kitty and the rest. Maybe that'll change as it progresses. There's a lot to like in the series, but there's just those few things about it that hamper it in my opinion.