Warpath as an Avenger??

[stussyjones]

except it's the exact opposite of the other book. X Force is about heroes becoming murderers and losing everything "for the right reasons": Betsy, Logan, Angel, Fantomex/Genesis, etc... It's a book about breaking people down and losing themselves in the fight.

Secret Avengers has Hawkeye refusing to kill "for the right reasons", and Ant Man sacrificing himself for the greater good. It's a book about heroes remaining heroes even though they operate in the shadows, and even when there's no easy solution.

I was talking about nick spencer secret avengers.

[Wren]

I was talking about nick spencer secret avengers.

EDIT: sorry, I guess you mean the upcoming run? I'm not going to comment 'till I read it.

[timeismoney]

Secret avengers basically is x force except they work for shield.

Come on Stussy you know we agree most of the time, but Secret Avengers is nothing like X Forces.

[stussyjones]

Come on Stussy you know we agree most of the time, but Secret Avengers is nothing like X Forces.

They both take out thier enemy's before there enemys can act the only difference was xforce answered to cyclops and the secret avengers answered to shield.

[XPac]

They both take out thier enemy's before there enemys can act the only difference was xforce answered to cyclops and the secret avengers answered to shield.

Pro-active teams did exist prior to the current versions of X-Force. It's not exactly a new idea.

[timeismoney]

They both take out thier enemy's before there enemys can act the only difference was xforce answered to cyclops and the secret avengers answered to shield.

I agree. I was just saying the concept didn't come from the X-MEN.
And Magneto is back. Now just give him his powers back. :)

[mikekerrIII]

Do you think that Jimmy Proudstar aka Warpath will ever join an Avengers team?

I don't think so, he still has some pride left and that disqualifies him

[SayOcean]

lol
Warpath wouldn't be caught dead working for the withe man

I'd rather have American Eagle first.

The rip clothing store???

So's Wanda - I remember Magma's boyfriend...

and Right. Wanda gets on my last nerves.

[Juggernaut Punch]

I won't take the bait this time... but this is why conversations can get derailed into AvX things. I can spend the next few pages arguing why Logan getting Hope to the Avengers isn't so much declawing as doing the right thing, but I won't bother (unless the conversation is pressed) because the book itself shows you why it needed to happen.

As far as Warpath... not my first choice personally, but he's not a bad one. He's a descent (though not great character IMO) that really isn't being used anywhere at all.

I wasn't the one that brought it up, I'd like to think that my position of AvX never having happened is fairly well known with anyone that's ever had a discussion with me at this point.

But since you pressed the issue, no the book didn't show us why it needed to happen. The editors and writers told us why in interviews because the book wasn't clear on it. Nor was Logan being so desperate as to come crawling back to Cap properly explained, especially because it made no sense seeing as how his whole modus operandi was killing her, not giving her to the Avengers.

Well, considering that Warpath SHOULD outclass Cap in every aspect.....

Not in smarts, experience and tech, which account for a lot. The fight happened off-screen, for all we know Cap used a power dampener on him, or a magic gun that sends mutants to Sleepy Town.

lol
Warpath wouldn't be caught dead working for the withe man

Cyclops and Logan are pretty darn white.

[XPac]

I wasn't the one that brought it up, I'd like to think that my position of AvX never having happened is fairly well known with anyone that's ever had a discussion with me at this point.

But since you pressed the issue, no the book didn't show us why it needed to happen. The editors and writers told us why in interviews because the book wasn't clear on it. Nor was Logan being so desperate as to come crawling back to Cap properly explained, especially because it made no sense seeing as how his whole modus operandi was killing her, not giving her to the Avengers.



Not in smarts, experience and tech, which account for a lot. The fight happened off-screen, for all we know Cap used a power dampener on him, or a magic gun that sends mutants to Sleepy Town.



Cyclops and Logan are pretty darn white.

Alright... since the issue is being pressed we'll go there.

Books tell us that Hope couldn't control the Phoenix prior to her training in Kun Lun, and we see that afterwards she can control can. So even if there is theoretically another way to sucessfully achieve the desired result (and we don't know for a fact that there is), we know that Hope working with the X-Men does in fact achieve them. We know that, because that's the story we got. So again, I'd argue it's less Logan being declawed (an arguement I'll wager the marvel editors and writers DEFINATELY wouldn't agree with you on) and more him doing what needed to be done to achieve the results they all sought. Hope herself would agree with that... and truthfully her opinion is what matters most.

[Juggernaut Punch]

Alright... since the issue is being pressed we'll go there.

Books tell us that Hope couldn't control the Phoenix prior to her training in Kun Lun, and we see that afterwards she can control can. So even if there is theoretically another way to sucessfully achieve the desired result (and we don't know for a fact that there is), we know that Hope working with the X-Men does in fact achieve them. We know that, because that's the story we got. So again, I'd argue it's less Logan being declawed (an arguement I'll wager the marvel editors and writers DEFINATELY wouldn't agree with you on) and more him doing what needed to be done to achieve the results they all sought. Hope herself would agree with that... and truthfully her opinion is what matters most.

The thing is, none of them knew that. The Avengers didn't know it, Wolverine didn't know it and the X-Men didn't know it. The Avengers were willing to go in with next to no intel, and Wolverine was willing to turn Hope over to them (despite his insistance on killing her mere issues before).

You make it sound as if the Avengers were intending to take her to K'un-L'un and train her from the very start, which is simply false. At the point when Logan turned her over, the Avengers' game plan was to shoot her into space so she could face the Phoenix away from Earth, which would have been even worse than her trying to control it sans water-bucket training.

Wolverine, the guy that always did his own thing and refused to follow orders if he thought he was right, turning over someone he believed was going to destroy the planet Earth to a man that doesn't care about his opinions and pushed him out of a moving plane into the North Pole is a declawing of the character. Although frankly, he started losing his claws way before AvX.

[XPac]

The thing is, none of them knew that. The Avengers didn't know it, Wolverine didn't know it and the X-Men didn't know it. The Avengers were willing to go in with next to no intel, and Wolverine was willing to turn Hope over to them (despite his insistance on killing her mere issues before).

You make it sound as if the Avengers were intending to take her to K'un-L'un and train her from the very start, which is simply false. At the point when Logan turned her over, the Avengers' game plan was to shoot her into space so she could face the Phoenix away from Earth, which would have been even worse than her trying to control it sans water-bucket training.

Wolverine, the guy that always did his own thing and refused to follow orders if he thought he was right, turning over someone he believed was going to destroy the planet Earth to a man that doesn't care about his opinions and pushed him out of a moving plane into the North Pole is a declawing of the character. Although frankly, he started losing his claws way before AvX.

I'm not saying the Avengers knew exactly how to handle the situation. But I am saying they were the right guys to handle it. And the story proved that, because that's what they did. They were the the comic book smart guys (Stark in particular) to figure out how to resolve the situation.

As far as Logan deciding to hand Hope over to Steve rather than flat out kill her (something he could have done while she was sleeping on the plane when they were alone), I consider that less him being de-clawed and more growth on his part. He was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and try something other than killing her, at least until she lost control to the point where she herself wanted him to stop her.

[Juggernaut Punch]

I'm not saying the Avengers knew exactly how to handle the situation. But I am saying they were the right guys to handle it. And the story proved that, because that's what they did. They were the the comic book smart guys (Stark in particular) to figure out how to resolve the situation.

As far as Logan deciding to hand Hope over to Steve rather than flat out kill her (something he could have done while she was sleeping on the plane when they were alone), I consider that less him being de-clawed and more growth on his part. He was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and try something other than killing her, at least until she lost control to the point where she herself wanted him to stop her.

Seriously? The guys with no knowledge of the situation whatsoever were the right guys to handle it? I guess the New Warriors are the people to call when you're up against Thanos. And of course you can't fight Ultron without the X-Men. The Avengers weren't even close to the right people to handle it. If they'd have had it their way, the world would have been destroyed. Things happened in a way that ended up with them lucking into the answer.

The Avengers knew nothing. They ran into the situation blind and expected things to work out. They knew nothing about the nature of the Phoenix, they didn't know how hosting the Phoenix worked, and they had absolutely no experience fighting it. You can't honestly tell me they were the right people for the job.

To each his own, I personally find that Logan's "growth" over the last few years have completely destroyed the character. Next thing you know, Thanos will grow to becoming a janitor.

[celticguy]

I was talking about nick spencer secret avengers.

Orr marvels version of Suicide Squad