Will Kurt Wagner Return in X-Termination?

[DevilishRogue]

I didn't really care for the overly religious focus of the send off, but as for a brief and scattered summary of the Hell part: Wolverine's spirit/subconscious was sent into Hell. While he was there, he met various incarnations from his subconscious that he had to deal with. Kurt shows up to help him and fight by his side. Meanwhile, in the real world, Emma, Melita, Kitty and Jubilee launch a rescue on the psychic plane to get him out. Kurt ends up being the one to unlock the final door that will help restore Logan. Towards the end, Jubilee is talking to Kurt on the psychic plane and says it's a bummer that he's just a memory from Logan's subconscious, and Kurt says, "but I'm the real..." then is interrupted. The last scene has him in white "Obi-Wan" robes watching the beserker part of Logan's mind tear at the door marked "revenge". He comments that Logan never learns.

I'm annoyed at Kurt being a continuous prop for Scott and Logans entitled whine fests as Kurt made the ultimate sacrifice. The fact that dealing with the whole Darkholme/Wagner confict is happening in Astonishing with characters that he was hardly close to other than Logan where WatX has Ororo, Rachel and Kitty for crying out loud. I appreciate what Lus doing but this really is just more Logan centric BS.

This is my main concern for when Kurt gets back, will he be allowed to even confront those two? Any character that does ends up being whiny or petty towards poor Scott. 05 Jean is already being played up as a irrational psycho with young Scott coming in as the voice of reason. I think its safe to say it will be the same old, same old, for a while.

Professor X 68-70 (faked)
Thunderbird 75-present
Jean 80-86
Angel 87-88 (faked)
Storm 89-89 (faked)
Magik 93-07
Rachel Grey 94-00
Cyclops 00-01
Colossus 01-04
Psylocke 01-05
Jean 04-present
Banshee 05-present
Nightcrawler 10-present
Professor X 12-present

What's this?

[MrSinister]

I'm annoyed at Kurt being a continuous prop for Scott and Logans entitled whine fests as Kurt made the ultimate sacrifice. The fact that dealing with the whole Darkholme/Wagner confict is happening in Astonishing with characters that he was hardly close to other than Logan where WatX has Ororo, Rachel and Kitty for crying out loud. I appreciate what Lus doing but this really is just more Logan centric BS.

This is my main concern for when Kurt gets back, will he be allowed to even confront those two? Any character that does ends up being whiny or petty towards poor Scott. 05 Jean is already being played up as a irrational psycho with young Scott coming in as the voice of reason. I think its safe to say it will be the same old, same old, for a while.




What's this?

the x-men who died and how long they stayed dead. Storm and Angel's doesn't count because a couple of issues after each ones death we saw in the shadows angel as a horseman and storm as a teenager.

[AgentFelix]

the x-men who died and how long they stayed dead. Storm and Angel's doesn't count because a couple of issues after each ones death we saw in the shadows angel as a horseman and storm as a teenager.

pretty much. i was iffy on including those two

[DevilishRogue]

the x-men who died and how long they stayed dead. Storm and Angel's doesn't count because a couple of issues after each ones death we saw in the shadows angel as a horseman and storm as a teenager.

Oh ok. Thanks.

I have to give Aaron props, though. Kurt being on the astral plane as some sort of helper may have opened doors for Kurt to have an other purpose outside of the X-Men. Maybe supernatural related.

[Sundowhn]

I have to give Aaron props, though. Kurt being on the astral plane as some sort of helper may have opened doors for Kurt to have an other purpose outside of the X-Men. Maybe supernatural related.

That could be an interesting angle, if it was actually used.

[DevilishRogue]

That could be an interesting angle, if it was actually used.

They sort of tried this with his solo series. But his current deadness and the story involving Azazel may actually have pay off if handled well. As much as I loathed Azazel in the past Fox pretty much cemented his existence. They might as well do something cool with it now that we are trapped with it. And hopefully that would give Kurt some new juice. The only thing is fans still cringe at even the mention of Azazel, which no amount of damage control or attempts to make him cool may never change.

[Sundowhn]

They sort of tried this with his solo series. But his current deadness and the story involving Azazel may actually have pay off if handled well. As much as I loathed Azazel in the past Fox pretty much cemented his existence. They might as well do something cool with it now that we are trapped with it. And hopefully that would give Kurt some new juice. The only thing is fans still cringe at even the mention of Azazel, which no amount of damage control or attempts to make him cool may never change.

Yeah, thanks to X-Men: First Class, Azazel is here to stay, I think.

As far as Azzy creating fan facepalm moments, maybe the first order of business should be to really set and define who and what he is. Draco said one thing, subsequent writers and stories had other interpretations. If the whole idea is related to the supernatural -- and I agree, this might give Kurt a boost -- fine, go with that and just give a few words of explanation. It might be harder to go with the paranormal story angle from the Azzy-is-just-another-mutant POV, but again, a few words of explanation would go a long way. The biggest problem I had with Draco was that it seemed poorly thought out and haphazardly pieced together with a few glaring inconsistencies. Do a little house-keeping and it's fine.

[DevilishRogue]

Yeah, thanks to X-Men: First Class, Azazel is here to stay, I think.

As far as Azzy creating fan facepalm moments, maybe the first order of business should be to really set and define who and what he is. Draco said one thing, subsequent writers and stories had other interpretations. If the whole idea is related to the supernatural -- and I agree, this might give Kurt a boost -- fine, go with that and just give a few words of explanation. It might be harder to go with the paranormal story angle from the Azzy-is-just-another-mutant POV, but again, a few words of explanation would go a long way. The biggest problem I had with Draco was that it seemed poorly thought out and haphazardly pieced together with a few glaring inconsistencies. Do a little house-keeping and it's fine.

Yeah, Austen was pretty clear that Azzy WAS A MUTANT but fans and later writers insisted he's a demon. If they wanted to, Azazel can be a mutant that acquired magical abilities through practice to go along with his devilish appearance. He wouldn't be the first mutant to practice magic. But then we already have a Belasco and a Mephisto. So that may make him redundant in the realm of magic.

[Sundowhn]

Yeah, Austen was pretty clear that Azzy WAS A MUTANT but fans and later writers insisted he's a demon. If they wanted to, Azazel can be a mutant that acquired magical abilities through practice to go along with his devilish appearance. He wouldn't be the first mutant to practice magic. But then we already have a Belasco and a Mephisto. So that may make him redundant in the realm of magic.

In the realm of just sorcerers involving other planes or dimensions, we also have Dr. Strange, Illyana, Pixie, and to a lesser degree Amanda and Margali. (Am I missing any others?)

My biggest beef with Austen was that he tried to rewrite Marvel lore. The way he presented things, there were no real demons or angels, there were only ancient mutants. That made no sense in light of established Marvel mythos.

As I said, a few words of explanation would go a long way.