Teen Titans #17 Question (SPOILERS)

[Aquacatlungfish]

Yeah i'm definitely thinking Joker. The Teen Titans #18 "Damian Memorial cover" has Tim once again sporting an inappropriate grin. And the solicit for that issue reads: " Unknown to the Teen Titans, Red Robin’s condition is worsening after the events of “DEATH OF THE FAMILY.” " So, at least to me its putting emphasis that what's wrong with Tim is something that happened as a direct consequence of DOTF. Raven I think is doing little more right now than just watching the team.

So Joker makes you a ladies man? Can I get kidnapped by the Joker soon? That sounds pretty awesome.

And by saying his condition is getting worse, I hope that means he sleeps with Bunker and Superboy next.

[kylesgirl]

Gasp, crazy things happening in comics! Call Spidey!

[Aquacatlungfish]

Gasp, crazy things happening in comics! Call Spidey!

Funny you should say that...

[Mecegirl]

Oh, yeah, I remember the argumentation.
It went something like:

"When there is a huge power discrepancy between the two of them, one being a GOD and the other just a mortal, it's rape."
By that logic, Superman has been raping Lois Lane every night since they got together, regardless of whether she's a consenting adult or not.

I don't even agree that what happened between Zeus and Hippy was rape, but you completely misunderstood what type of power disparity they were talking about. The relationship between a God, and a mortal who we might assume worships said God, could get a bit out of hand if sex was involved.

Rape or not there are actually a lot of people that count what happened in this comic as a negative for both Cassie, and Tim. The batboys have an interesting track record with rape. It's pretty much how we got Damien (after a retcon). There was whatever happened between Tarantula and Dick. There was that time Mirage shape shifted into Starfire and tricked Dick into sleeping with her. And didn't Black Bat save Tim from rape in the Red Robin book?

[Outside_85]

I don't even agree that what happened between Zeus and Hippy was rape, but you completely misunderstood what type of power disparity they were talking about. The relationship between a God, and a mortal who we might assume worships said God, could get a bit out of hand if sex was involved.

Thing is that if anything of the 4 seasons sequence can be used, it should be the fighting bit. So it wasn't like he showed up and she fell over to welcome him on-board.

So Joker makes you a ladies man? Can I get kidnapped by the Joker soon? That sounds pretty awesome.

If you read the Suicide Squad DotF tie in...you'd realize thats actually true, Joker has had a number of Harley Quinn's over the years...and he keeps the remains in a locked room after he left them there to starve to death. Harleen however appears to be the first to have escaped that place.

And by saying his condition is getting worse, I hope that means he sleeps with Bunker and Superboy next.

Do we even know if the designer superweapon does even have those functions? :)

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Thing is that if anything of the 4 seasons sequence can be used, it should be the fighting bit. So it wasn't like he showed up and she fell over to welcome him on-board.

Agreed, it would have been a different mater if Hera appeared to Hip and tried to sex her.
Heck, forget Hera.
Hip worshipped her so much she had no prob sleeping with her husband.
In Zeus case, not only does Hip not appear to bow to his every whim she even had (initialy not-so friendly) sword clashes with him.

[Outside_85]

Agreed, it would have been a different mater if Hera appeared to Hip and tried to sex her.
Heck, forget Hera.
Hip worshipped her so much she had no prob sleeping with her husband.
In Zeus case, not only does Hip not appear to bow to his every whim she even had (initialy not-so friendly) sword clashes with him.

It might ultimately depend on if the Amazons actually worship the Olympians the same way modern Christians worship God, as in bending over at the slightest whim in absolute reverence.
Considering there are that many stories about the Olympians being horrible, petty and spiteful. Perhaps the old Greeks (and the Amazons by extension) treated them more like they would the local crime family.

Also I don't recall Hera being all that important to the Amazons, Perez at least completely omitted her from having anything to do with their creation. Which might have to do with Hera pretty much embodies the old-world view on women; as the obedient housewife :S

[ascended]

Seems to me that the people who think Hippolyta was raped because Zeus was a god in her pantheon are simply looking for reasons to dislike what Azzarello did. It just feels like a thin argument to try to justify a negative opinion of the work in general. But thats neither here nor there for this thread.

As for Tim, the grin makes me assume this is Joker related and not Raven related, as do the solicits. But I suppose she could have a hand in it too. Hmm....actually....Tim's actions seem pretty odd, even for victims of Joker gas attacks and whatnot....just far too....in control. Joker's attacks always cause pure chaos and this feels too directed.

Now, Joker did do something pretty messed up with Tim when he was captured, (if memory serves), and there were trace elements of something in everyone's systems at the end of DotF. But again, turning Tim into a morally empty horndog doesnt seem like it would really fit. Maybe that's just Lobdell's writing, which can be thin as hell at times, but maybe Raven is compounding the problem and giving the Joker-addled Tim some direction and focus.

It might fit. Cassie's armor is supposed to be linked to Trigon, and Solstice (who I am really becoming a fan of) has some secrets of her own which have been hinted at and alluded to recently. So, assuming Raven is involved in Tim's actions, taking advantage of his Joker weakened state, it might make sense that he's "targeting" the girls (giggity.)

Yup, thats my theory for now.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I don't recall Hera being all that important to the Amazons, Perez at least completely omitted her from having anything to do with their creation.

Well, it IS pretty hard to whitewash some of her deeds.
I mean, snakes in baby cradles?
Bad, b-a-d- girl.

[HokiePokie]

My thoughts as well. If lying about yourself and/or misleading someone about your life is solid grounds for rape then just about every adult on earth, and every teenager with some game, is guilty.

Again, a powerful term being used too freely here. Like the words 'epic' 'classic' and 'Morrison'.

That's oversimplifying the situation though.

It's not lying about your finances to woman to get her to sleep with you. Tim is possibly under the control of someone else. It's kind of like a girl choosing to sleep with a guy she knows very well but it's actually his twin brother pretending to be him. It's a very sick thing to do to someone and I don't see how that can't be considered rape. The girl wants to sleep with Tim but instead she might be sleeping with some other sicko.

[Rob_Olivera]

That's oversimplifying the situation though.

It's not lying about your finances to woman to get her to sleep with you. Tim is possibly under the control of someone else. It's kind of like a girl choosing to sleep with a guy she knows very well but it's actually his twin brother pretending to be him. It's a very sick thing to do to someone and I don't see how that can't be considered rape. The girl wants to sleep with Tim but instead she might be sleeping with some other sicko.

If the 'twin brother' put a gun to her head it'd be rape. Immoral and Illegal are two different things.

[HokiePokie]

If the 'twin brother' put a gun to her head it'd be rape. Immoral and Illegal are two different things.

And at any point, I can easily see how situations like that can definitely fall under the umbrella of "rape" and being illegal.

There is no reason for a law not to be against twin brothers/sisters tricking their siblings SO into sex and there is no reason for it not to be rape. Rape isn't just pointing guns and forcing people. If someone is possessing Tim and having sex with her, it's a pretty sick thing. The person taking over Tim could be a 90 year old child molester or it might even be her dad.

[Hostile Kangaroo]

Here's what I don't get: why do people freak out when this happens in comics? It's possible it's meant to be rape. That happens to people in real life and comics are meant to explore and reflect reality with paranormality.

Sometimes that's a story that needs to be shown. Sometimes it can enlighten you to bad things happening irl in a storytelling way.

[americanwonder]

Note: I haven't read the issue in question, just some of the spoilers and discussion.

If the 'twin brother' put a gun to her head it'd be rape. Immoral and Illegal are two different things.

And sometimes immoral and illegal are the same. Depending on where you live, impersonating a woman's husband to get her to have sex with you IS considered rape under the law - there's a fairly high profile case on this in California where the conviction was overturned because the woman wasn't married:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2406167.html

Now, we don't have many clear laws regarding demons taking over a person's behavior, so, it's hard to say just what the law would/should be in the DCU. But, if someone else is driving Tim's body - eg., Tim is NOT in control and someone else is directly pulling the strings - then, yes, imo, I say that Cassie AND Tim were both raped.

I don't like rape discussions about comic book plots that are unfeasible in the real world.

Perhaps mention that to the writers who create these scenarios?

Here's what I don't get: why do people freak out when this happens in comics? It's possible it's meant to be rape. That happens to people in real life and comics are meant to explore and reflect reality with paranormality.

Sometimes that's a story that needs to be shown. Sometimes it can enlighten you to bad things happening irl in a storytelling way.

You're right that real life has lots of ugly situations. I'm not against a good, honest look at some of that ugly. But, let's be honest, the writing on stuff like this is not typically a good, honest look - it's usually shallow, sensationalistic crap. In my book, if the writer isn't up to handling it well, the writer shouldn't be handling it at all.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

EVERYTHING is better with less rape in it.

Comic stories included.