Action Comics 17 Preview / Discussion (Spoilers)

[B. Kuwanger]

As Desaad said, these weren't quite gaps I needed filled in or anything. It pretty much felt like a (strangely, penultimate) celebration of the awesomeness that had come before.

[DochaDocha]

Well... I still have issues with this particular story arc, but I really liked the backup story at the end.

[Mr. Holmes]

Never mind.

[Mr. Holmes]

Man, I'm gonna have to read the rest of this run. I stopped on Morrison's Action run after the first HC, because...new 52 Superman and his world frankly isn't "old school" (for lack of a better phrase) enough for me. (I wanted Grant to fuse Superman's Pre & Post-Crisis history like with Batman, keep it all, and make a narrative out of it....but, instead, Grant has been, due to editorial, writing a new Superman history that isn't faithful and traditional enough for me)

But...I'm gonna have to put all that aside, and read the rest of this run as a Morrison fan (rather than a new 52 Supes fan).

These kinds of threads and Quinnhop's posts have convinced me.

Morrison came up with an explanation to how the entire history could still fit in in AC #15. I don't know if that would satisfy you though, but maybe worth a look?

[Officersmile1466]

I'm loving how all the little random parts of the story are now being tied together. Especially good to finally see what the little man was doing with Glenmorgan back in issue 1. Also great to see how 0 ties into the story (aside from being an awesome little story). There's something hilariously awesome about Superman's nemesis in this story being a monstrous corporate franchise superman who beats up his prime competition while talking about his corporate directives.

Considering Morrison's final issue was split into two seemingly quite late in the process, I'd love to hear later on what kind of stuff was added to the story. I'm guessing the little man's talk to the reader is something that wouldn't have fit in with a single epic issue.

I'm honestly hating the art on this series. It just looks bland and dull. A few issues have been ok art wise (especially 9 and 0 for me) but overall this series really needed a much better and consistent artist to help out with the story.

Considering this'll most likely be the final Sholly backup I'd say they went out on a positive note. Some of those backups have been good but others have been horrible. Luckily this one was good.

[Sacred Knight]

What was the point of this issue? Did it accomplish anything?

Yep. By showing us Vyndktvx's plan against Superman from his point of view, and more stuff from the Legion's point of view, it filled in the rest of the blanks about stuff that happened in the previous issues. This was the "answers" chapter before the big finale. I appreciate the non-linear approach, which calls for revelation interludes such as this in the first place, might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I love stories told like this. Its a risky storytelling device as it reaps big pay-offs for the reader if done well, but massive letdowns if not. Obviously I think this has accomplished the former.

[Mr. Holmes]

I have to agree the art has been the main strike against this book. It's not bad, but Morrison's writing deserves better. Maybe months delay would have been worth it, though the New 52 has made a policy against that kind of thing.

Otherwise, the last 3-4 issues have been fantastic. This is what people were hoping Morrison would deliver on Superman the way he did on Batman - an intricate puzzle with so much subtext. Plus it's on a metaphysical level.

I'm kind of tired of people bashing Action, tbh.

[Sacred Knight]

I think at this point its an underrated title, frankly. I may catch hell for saying this but I think this is better work than Inc, which Morrison currently seems to be getting more recognition for.

[Auguste Dupin]

So not only can Superman leap out of the way faster than the speed of light but civilians who are also in close proximity get super powers too? Cause a cop and an old man managed to "dodge" it too.

Why would she believe them if they did? We might be fanboys but she isn't. Besides, Wonder Woman was the one to finally get through.

Moving the Fortress later rather than sooner had no effect on H'El's success or failure. The JLA didn't win because he failed to move the Fortress sooner, SuperDoom is going to lose because he allowed those civilians to remove Superman's Kryptonite chains. Besides, if H'El moved the Fortress sooner they would spend the rest of the issue flying around looking for it instead of running the gauntlet.

H'El wanted to pull Superboy apart atom by atom to unlock the secrets of his unique physiology, then he decided to keep him around so that Superboy could fulfil some other purpose. Is that a sore thumb? Maybe. Is it as bad as letting civilians unchain Superman during the final showdown in order to guarantee Superman's victory? Not even close.

What would the trap be and how would H'El guarantee it would work? Also, who is calibrating the device while H'El is playing with their heads?

Could you be more concise, this is really vague.

Isn't that why DC gave Captain Boomerang Junior super speed? What does that tell you when the publisher is addressing my concerns above yours by striving to make comics sensible?

Not all comic books force me to deal with it, not even all super hero/DC comics I read force me to deal with it. This is the only title that forces me to deal with it because of the Silver Age Flair.





Did I touch a nerve by discussing my disappointment over how Morrison handles one of my all time favourites? Oh I'm sorry, I thought this was the Action Comics Preview/Discussion thread. I hate Silver Age Superman, get it straight boys and when I see an Oh Henry in the pool, I'm going to point it out.

I guess you'll have to Deal with it.

-They don't have to dodge it, he's not aiming at them. They're running away because of the impact. But I like the argument that the last episode of the JL cartoon was crap because Batman dodged an Omega Beam.

- And the fact she believed Wonder Woman is exactly the reason why Superman should have told her issues ago. Just because she may or may not believe doesn't make it logical not to tell her. It's not exactly the 2 seconds lost to do so that are going to be a problem, especially when said seconds are lost anyway to tell her vague thins that try to do the same thing, but without actually telling her why following H'El is a bad idea.

- And then, he would have moved the Fortress again. Or moved then back to the Watchtower, like he did with Flash. Or inside the Sun, like he did with Supergirl in his first appearance.

-No, I'm talking about the 2nd one, where Superboy tries to defend Superman, only for H'El to split his genetic, killing him slowly. And leaving him next to Superman. Who is wearing a suit that can save the kid. Something he obviously knew, considering both H'El and the suit are from Krypton. With some evil gloating for good measure. All of this when he could have splitted his DNA, and then rip his head off (Superman wasn't in any state to stop him. Or he could have teleported Superman away and then killed Superboy). Yep. That's called being an idiot, H'El.

- Ho, I don't know. Pretending to be Supergirl, that you understood H'El was going to destroy the Earth, and when they turn their back on you, you burn those you can alive with your heatvision.Or you take the seconds where they're going to argue about wether or not you can be trusted to teleport them into the Sun (killing everyone but Superman).

-So, his Boomerangs have superspeed, too?

- You keep using these words. Silver Age. I'm not sure it means what you think it means. (Hint: A bad guy trying to kill Superman with eye beams didn't happen a lot in the Silver Age. it happened much more often after the Byrne reboot).

-Well, people like OldSchoolFan or Lexrules manage to coexist relatively fine with Morrison lovers here, so I wouldn't say the problem lies within your tastes in comics. I'd say it probably has more to do the way you arrive in a thread, insult a few people, claim that your opinions are facts and that those who disagree are vocal hating minority (like how you claimed that All Star was a niche book despite, you know, having sold quite a lot, winning quite a few awards, being acclaimed by newspapers like Time magasine, and all that) without ever using "objective" arguments to back you up of course, take some people's posts only to not answer them and associate them with theories they had nothing to do with, breaking the laws of decency and logic, only to act like a victim when people call you out of it. Ho, and insulting people.
And I won't have to deal with you anymore because you'll be on my ignore list in the next 5 minutes.

[the Sun God]

Reading on other sites the comments to the preview of Action Comics #17, I noticed a lot of hate for the Morrison's work on Superman in the last two years (and Dc in the last 10 years) for get away the character from the Byrne's take. By the negative comments I've read in the last years it seems that John Byrne has created Superman. Is this a normal conception among modern Superman fans or comic readers in general? In a month and a half that I have joined this forum, I don't remember having read a lot praise for Byrne.

Here two examples of what I've read:

If one had to drag Didio and his cronies before a court and wring a confession from them, I'd bet you quatloos to donuts that the only reason the Kents were killed off after Flushtoilet was to wipe away all aspects of the Byrne revamp out of sheer spite for Byrne and his fans.

Crap like this why Bryne's reboot of superman will always be way better then Grant Morrisons. Yes I do know morrison is gone from book but he did set this up.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/f...-new-52-a.html

[Sacred Knight]

Well they're right on one thing, a goal, at one point, was to remove all aspects of Byrne's revamp. But I'd ask if they've been living in a rock for the past ten years becuase that's about how long Byrne's version has been toast. And the same guy who posted one of those complaints also made the claim that this version of Superman is an "emo wanker" whose unsure of himself. Dude's got his Superman incarnations completely flip-flopped.

[Mr. Holmes]

Bleeding Cool's forum is damn good entertainment.

[the Sun God]

What seems strange is that, unlike here on CBR, in the other forums the thought pro-Byrne reboot and anti-Morrison/new52 is almost unanimous.

[Sacred Knight]

I got no issues with anyone who prefers the Byrne origin. I'm still fine with it myself, though its no longer my favorite. And I know there's people here who prefer that origin. But they're not babies about it, talking about spite being the main factor in it being retconned away, like its the first and only time a Superman origin has been changed. Out of all the comic themed forums I've been too Bleeding Cool has got to have the most drama queens.

[the Sun God]

Yeah... DC reboot its characters at least every 25 years. And for me, the Byrne's ideas began to be retconned since the early 90s with the reintroduction of the Fortress of Solitude. His Superman's "world" was too "closed" (no fortress, no adventures outside the Earth, etc...) to last without major changes.