Action Comics 17 Preview / Discussion (Spoilers)

[manofsteel1979]

Actually, I took the ending as Lex Luthor fighting with Superman, using what I call the "Vegeta excuse" (I"m the only one allowed to beat you"), a bit like issue 9, where Superman teams up with his worst ennemy to beat the guy.

spoilers:

Yeah, but I can bet 10 dollars that soon as Vindi and Doomsday are put down, Lex will likely use the opportunity to attempt to kill Superman. It's a classic trope that I doubt even Morrison will resist!

end of spoilers

[the Sun God]

Looked more like an evil Pa Kent to me. Not that I believe it was supposed to. I guess it was just a messed up Sup.

What did you think of the whole thing?

It's hard to judge the story before the run is over. Anyway... I really liked this last issue of Action Comics. I love the overlapping timelines... confusing is better... I expect in the next issue that dr. Who arrives and save the day.
The back-ups are cheesy and "take place after the events of the next issues" as usual and, for me, they don't add much to the story (with some exceptions of course).
One thing I didn't like... or maybe I found strange... is the context in which Morrison makes happen the death of the Kents... but I will elaborate on this later.

[Ntikrst]

curses my plot was foiled again. curse you Ntikrst! (my first and only supervillain impression. Like they say always go with the classics.)

You'll have to work harder than that to defeat the rebel alliance!!!

[OldSchoolfan]

Really glad you liked it. Do you have a favorite issue and why you liked it? I'd like to hear your take.

This has been a process for me. I went from not buying Action at all to getting sucked into the Superman vs. Brainiac thing....I am a sucker for a good Superman vs. Brainiac fight.

It was a good confrontation with a nice resolution, but there were some story telling flaws. We should have seen how Metal 0 ended up on the centipede's back, we should have seen how Metropolis was restored in a more graphic fashion...if you are going to be a minimialist, you have to show the reader this stuff. Or....use a little exposition to explain how it happened. Any thing else is just conjecture on the part of the reader and the writer at any time could turn around and change it.....

So if I had to pick a single issue, it would be 8(the finale). But, what I have observed about Morrison's work is that it really isn't meant to be read in a piecemeal format. I believe his intent is for it to be read in as close to one sitting as possible, so it's really written for a trade paperback format, and not the monthly comic I am so used to.

The reason I say that is because he leaves out a lot of exposition that would really clear some simple things up. A lot of stuff in the story is assumed, and not all readers will see what is there, and to be honest, its not really all there all the time. There have been times, for example that I have read an interview of Morrison and he has said stuff is in the story, and when I look at it, I have a hard time seeing what he is talking about. And I have been really careful about this, and asked other people if they see it, and many times the response is that they aren't seeing what he is referring to either. So I am fairly certain its not just me. For awhile there were fans that would just tell me I was stupid, or lazy, but I am confident that my objections to the writing aren't because of that.

Any way, I am looking forward to picking up this issue this afternoon and reading it. I haven't said that in awhile. And I don't think I have ever said that about anything Morrison has written.

[Ntikrst]

...As for the present day, Superman manages to fight back and breaks Superdoom's helmet, only to reveal......I'm not quite sure what...

spoilers:

It's a metapor for the adolescent tastes in Marvel Super Hero comics that forced DC to finally abandon the Silver Age back in the 80's. SuperDoom is Morrison's interpretation of the Modern Age of Super Heroes and how they are oh so inferior to his Asexual Gary Stu.

end of spoilers

I'm still confused about one thing though, why did SuperDoom allow the civilians to remove the Kryptonite chains from Superman? I mean other than to act conveniently stupid to advance the plot and set up the sentimental drivel of being rescued and thereby accepted by all the little people who love Superman ever so much.

[Retro315]

I liked it. I still like Brad Walker's art better. But then we get 10 pages from Chris Sprouse and it just makes me mad that the whole run wasn't Sprouse.

Still, this is the issue that basically sorts out the chronology of every offbeat jump to a different time period, in and including the involvement and personal timelines of time travelers.

And then tells us all that the chronology doesn't matter.

Plus the Super-Doom monster rants about how it's the better corporate franchise Superman, but doesn't realize that it's fighting the Superman represented by DC Comics as the canonical franchise player, and is thus outclassed by the franchise mega-power infusion imbued into this universe's Superman by extra-extra-dimensional, higher order beings (us!). But it's always nice to watch a construct learn that it can't win.

While I wasn't surprised by how anything played out here, I will say that I have zero speculation about how Superman will actually turn the tables. There's a few plates spinning, but where and why and how each one is pulled off, beats me. Lois, Jimmy and the Legion of Super-Best-Friends woke up Mxy. Blue-K might not have the effect K-Man Blue thinks it has on Super-Dogs. And we still haven't met Captain Comet and the Wanderers.

[the Sun God]

Two things about Jonathan and Martha's dead... the whole "Vinny killed the Kents" I hope turns out as untrue and that Vyndktvx is only a witness of their death. I mean... many fans complain about Earth-One's Krypton destroyed not due to natural causes or the Brainiac involvement in Jonathan's death during the Johns run... I don't think that in this case the "alleged murder" of the Kents by Vinny is better suited to the character of Superman.
The second thing is the moment when the Kents die: Clark is all happy at the prom dance, he's going to have his first kiss with Lana, and, during this moment of happiness, his parents died and he wasn't there to save them. And, as someone have interpreted, from this moment on, he'll feel guilty and a little selfish and stop thinking about girls and kiss and his own happiness in order to be present when there'll be another accident. So is this the new lesson of the Kents death? It's no longer about mortality and the limits of Clark's powers, but "you'd have to be there". As many have noted in other forums, the situation is very Peter Parkerish. Maybe it's just me and Morrison is in good faith.

[Auguste Dupin]

[/COLOR]

spoilers:

It's a metapor for the adolescent tastes in Marvel Super Hero comics that forced DC to finally abandon the Silver Age back in the 80's. SuperDoom is Morrison's interpretation of the Modern Age of Super Heroes and how they are oh so inferior to his Asexual Gary Stu.

end of spoilers

I'm still confused about one thing though, why did SuperDoom allow the civilians to remove the Kryptonite chains from Superman? I mean other than to act conveniently stupid to advance the plot and set up the sentimental drivel of being rescued and thereby accepted by all the little people who love Superman ever so much.

Yeah, random boring rant that had nothing to do with anything aside, that was not what I was asking, since I actually am perfectly aware of what Superdoom represents.
As for the "allowing thing", Superman was thrown away by his opponent , so technically, he wasn't next to him to prevent them from removing the chains. Convenient true, but if I had a dime everyone Superman and/ or his ennemies didn't use their abilities to make a fight end quicker, or everytime a villain had Batman at his mercy only to not kill him, I would be very very rich right now.

[Sean Walsh]

The second thing is the moment when the Kents die: Clark is all happy at the prom dance, he's going to have his first kiss with Lana, and, during this moment of happiness, his parents died and he wasn't there to save them. And, as someone have interpreted, from this moment on, he'll feel guilty and a little selfish and stop thinking about girls and kiss and his own happiness in order to be present when there'll be another accident. So is this the new lesson of the Kents death? It's no longer about mortality and the limits of Clark's powers, but "you'd have to be there". As many have noted in other forums, the situation is very Peter Parkerish. Maybe it's just me and Morrison is in good faith.

I don't see much of a Peter Parkerish comparison - the crux of Spider-Man's origin was that he chose to do something selfish and stupid, and it came around to ruin his life quite a bit. Clark wasn't being selfish.....he was being human. But while he was living a life, something happened that may've been prevented had he just been.......Superman.

It's a twist, of sorts, on the "man vs. superman" concept. Should Clark be doing normal things like a regular person, or should he be some omniscient/lifeless superpowered Jesus-like sentinel? His answer: do both, as best as he can, because he was raised to just be the best kind of person he could possibly be.

[Mr. Holmes]

Jeez this issue was off the roof. The nonlinear narrative is so well executed, even if it suffers a little from having two artists.

Backup had quite an emotional punch.

[Primemao]

I love the back up so much and hope clark got to closer somewhat even though he always going to miss his parents.

[Ntikrst]

Yeah, random boring rant that had nothing to do with anything aside, that was not what I was asking, since I actually am perfectly aware of what Superdoom represents.

Sure you did...that's why you brought it up in the form of an open ended question.

As for the "allowing thing", Superman was thrown away by his opponent , so technically, he wasn't next to him to prevent them from removing the chains.

Good thing SuperDoom's eye-beams are a ranged attack. He even waits until all the chains are off before he uses them. It's like watching an old Temple Kung Fu commercial where everybody attacks one at a time, waiting their turn before getting hip tossed by the old master. My next question is how is it possible to miss with eye-beams? Presumably he's looking at Superman and the civilians when he does finally blast them and eye beams travel in a straight line at the speed of light but SuperDoom blasts the ground by Superman's feet missing him and his civilian accomplices completely.

Convenient true, but if I had a dime everyone Superman and/ or his ennemies didn't use their abilities to make a fight end quicker, or everytime a villain had Batman at his mercy only to not kill him, I would be very very rich right now.

So because Superman and Batman have a shameful history of sucking, it's ok that we continue to prop up that fine tradition? I've been buying Lobdell's Superman run since #0 and I can't think of any sore thumbs that stand out as bad.

[Last Son]

So the mask comes off and... spoilers:

Superdoom's face is a combination of Superman's and Doomsday's

end of spoilers

[Ntikrst]

So the mask comes off and... spoilers:

Superdoom's face is a combination of Superman's and Doomsday's

end of spoilers

Marvel bad, DC good!

[Auguste Dupin]

Sure you did...that's why you brought it up in the form of an open ended question.



Good thing SuperDoom's eye-beams are a ranged attack. He even waits until all the chains are off before he uses them. It's like watching an old Temple Kung Fu commercial where everybody attacks one at a time, waiting their turn before getting hip tossed by the old master. My next question is how is it possible to miss with eye-beams? Presumably he's looking at Superman and the civilians when he does finally blast them and eye beams travel in a straight line at the speed of light but SuperDoom blasts the ground by Superman's feet missing him and his civilian accomplices completely.





So because Superman and Batman have a shameful history of sucking, it's ok that we continue to prop up that fine tradition? I've been buying Lobdell's Superman run since #0 and I can't think of any sore thumbs that stand out as bad.

- Okay....First : my comment was not a question, open ended or not (you can notice because there was no question mark). Second: I was wondering what was up with Superdoom's face, something that was not about the symbolism of the character as Superman turned into a 90's antihero, but about wether or not how his face looked like had any specific meaning.
Answering comments works better if you read them first.

-Simple: Superman moved out of the way. Eye beams remain lasers, and touch only a specific point, even if his vision cover a much larger area. If Superman jumps away from the beam at the last second (which he did), the lasers are going to miss him.

- Out of my hat: The Justice league/ Superman not telling Supergirl that H'El's plan is going to blow up the Earth despite confronting her quite a few times. H'El moving the Justice League around in the Fortress for the entire 17 issue when he could have teleported the Fortress away the moment they entered. H'El killing Superboy in a complicated fashion such as using his powers to split his genetics when he could have just used his superspeed to break his neak. H'El not using his shape shifting powers to lay Superman and the others into a trap. Aof these are characters conveniently forgetting their possibilities and abilities so the plot could move foward as planned by the writer.
In general, one could make comments about how Flash has trouble fighting a guy throwing boomerangs despite moving faster than light. Comic books. Deal with it.