Just for fun- Superman vs. Dr. Manhattan

[Kensei]

I know that "Watchmen" didn't take place within the same reality as the rest of the DC universe, but if it did, what do you think would happen in a fight between Superman and Dr. Manhattan? Who would win? Would it be a stalemate? Would Superman's invulnerability make him immune to what happened to Rorschach? Manhattan can deconstruct matter, and no matter how powerful he is Supes is comprised of matter. Supes can punch a hole through virtually anything, but Manhattan can turn intangible so that things go right through him. Manhattan can make himself 100 feet tall and can duplicate himself an undefined number of times. There is only one of Supes and he is always the same size. Manhattan doesn't need to breathe air and is immune to cold, as he can travel in space and stand naked in Antarctica uneffected. Would he also be immune to heat and be uneffected by Supes' heat vision? There's no info on Manhattan having super speed but he can teleport millions of miles in seconds, which has the same effect. I'm having trouble imagining how Superman could possibly beat Dr. Manhattan.

Discuss.

[KJ Stewart]

So you're talking about movie versions?

Regardless, although Supes is much faster, there's very little he can do to keep Manhattan permanently down.

And, particularly in the case of Routh Supes, who wasn't THAT fast and therefore couldn't return quickly, Manhattan could dump him on Mars for a 10 count.

[big_adventure]

And, particularly in the case of Routh Supes, who wasn't THAT fast and therefore couldn't return quickly, Manhattan could dump him on Mars for a 10 count.

Actually, no he couldn't - as long as you can return under your own power, you're not 10-counted by a BFR. BFR is only a win when the opponent cannot return under their own power AT ALL.

And if this is movie Supes, he can just kiss Doc and make him forget that he's a mini-cosmic. :-)

[Surtur]

Technically most rumbles are "just for fun". If this was comic Supes I'd say he stomps, Doc gets 10 counted(same reason dude lost to Gladiator via a rumble). Movie Supes not sure how potent his HV, etc. is.

Side note: Doc is basically an energy being, does that grant him automatic immunity to being KO'ed and stuff? Can energy beings be knocked out and lose consciousness? I know the only thing that hurt hm was that machine the villain made, but then again they had nobody else in that universe even close to movie Supes power level.

[Kuro]

So you're talking about movie versions?

Regardless, although Supes is much faster, there's very little he can do to keep Manhattan permanently down.

And, particularly in the case of Routh Supes, who wasn't THAT fast and therefore couldn't return quickly, Manhattan could dump him on Mars for a 10 count.

IIRC, Routh Superman was apparently fast enough to almost be at two places at once, according to the reporter. Also said he was somewhere along the speed of light

.. for what it's worth.

[KJ Stewart]

Actually, no he couldn't - as long as you can return under your own power, you're not 10-counted by a BFR. BFR is only a win when the opponent cannot return under their own power AT ALL.

And if this is movie Supes, he can just kiss Doc and make him forget that he's a mini-cosmic. :-)

Does Routh know his way back from Mars?

He may have been to the sun, but it's pretty 'easy' to get to somewhere you can see from where you start from.

It's going to take him days to return. Surely that's enough.

[KJ Stewart]

IIRC, Routh Superman was apparently fast enough to almost be at two places at once, according to the reporter. Also said he was somewhere along the speed of light

.. for what it's worth.

Not much really when it's just hyperbole.

[Surtur]

Does Routh know his way back from Mars?

He may have been to the sun, but it's pretty 'easy' to get to somewhere you can see from where you start from.

It's going to take him days to return. Surely that's enough.

I don't think it is actually. If they can return under their own power, even if it takes a long time..it's not a BFR. That is how I've always seen it. Doesn't make sense to win by sending your opponent somewhere they can come back from in a few days, especially since it's not like it will take years or months in this scenario nor if he actually doing any physical damage to him. I've never once seen a time limit put on how long you have to return. Sure I guess it would be up for discussion if it would take many years, but days? Seems a little weird. He's inconveniencing Supes, not defeating him.

So I'd more be asking "Can movie Supes even hold his breath long enough to get back here without suffocating?" I don't recall him ever being in space for any lengthy amount of time, and Routh Supes surely doesn't have any flying speed feats to show he could return in a few minutes/hours.

[KJ Stewart]

I don't think it is actually. If they can return under their own power, even if it takes a long time..it's not a BFR. That is how I've always seen it. Doesn't make sense to win by sending your opponent somewhere they can come back from, especially since it's not like it will take years or months in this scenario. I've never once seen a time limit put on how long you have to return. Sure I guess it would be up for discussion if it would take many years, but days? Seems a little weird. He's inconveniencing Supes, not defeating him.

Did he show transmutation? He could perhaps have everything turned to Kryptonite by the time he gets back. Including a wall of knives made of the stuff to fire at him unavoidably.

[Surtur]

Did he show transmutation? He could perhaps have everything turned to Kryptonite by the time he gets back. Including a wall of knives made of the stuff to fire at him unavoidably.

I think he did, but then the question becomes "If a person transmutes one thing, can they transmute anything?" since it's not like it exists in his own universe. Or to give another question..if he can transmute kryptonite, would he then be spotted the power to create things like adamantium?

[KJ Stewart]

I think he did, but then the question becomes "If a person transmutes one thing, can they transmute anything?" since it's not like it exists in his own universe. Or to give another question..if he can transmute kryptonite, would he then be spotted the power to create things like adamantium?

It seems any Marvel character with transmutation is granted the ability. Surfer for example.

[Surtur]

It seems any Marvel character with transmutation is granted the ability. Surfer for example.

Yeah, but doesn't Surfer have cosmic awareness and feats of actually sensing out weaknesses of other beings and stuff? Also doesn't he have transmutation feats surpassing Doc? I mean, if I transmute a hot dog into being a hot dog made of silver..can I create kryptonite on the fly merely by being told it exists?

[StupidMoniker]

So I'd more be asking "Can movie Supes even hold his breath long enough to get back here without suffocating?" I don't recall him ever being in space for any lengthy amount of time, and Routh Supes surely doesn't have any flying speed feats to show he could return in a few minutes/hours.

Wasn't Routh Supes floating in space serenely waiting to hear something happen and swoop in and save the day? I guess it isn't shown exactly how long he has been up there, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that he is disturbed by being in space at all.

[KJ Stewart]

Yeah, but doesn't Surfer have cosmic awareness and feats of actually sensing out weaknesses of other beings and stuff? Also doesn't he have transmutation feats surpassing Doc? I mean, if I transmute a hot dog into being a hot dog made of silver..can I create kryptonite on the fly merely by being told it exists?

Manhattan can sense all kinds of crazy things, even in the movie. And he can see things down to a molecular level. And could he not look in to Superman's past and see Kryptonite? I'm sure he'd figure out a weakness in one of those ways.

And if he got to Mars, while he's waiting days for Superman to return, surely he could get to somewhere with Kryptonite (i.e. Krypton or fragments of what is left to it) and get some himself, IF he can't transmute some of his own.

[Surtur]

Manhattan can sense all kinds of crazy things, even in the movie. And he can see things down to a molecular level. And could he not look in to Superman's past and see Kryptonite? I'm sure he'd figure out a weakness in one of those ways.

And if he got to Mars, while he's waiting days for Superman to return, surely he could get to somewhere with Kryptonite (i.e. Krypton or fragments of what is left to it) and get some himself, IF he can't transmute some of his own.

Here is my thing though, if the guy is quick enough to send him to Mars before he can get off any attacks why bother? Why not just create kryptonite right away? I'm also still not exactly sure the guy has the feats showing he can create elements not even from his universe just by knowing about it. If the dude has to look at his molecules to know then sending him to Mars is counterproductive to that. Also wouldn't it work better if he could inspect kryptonite down to the molecular level? Is looking at Supes molecules going to scream "he's weak to kryptonite" ?