Would you be open to a Damian death if it brought Steph back as the new Robin?

[Bluebow]

Come to think of it, I would like to a heavily marketed stint of someone else, anyone else, really, as Batgirl. Just to see if the same marketing push could lead to similar sales for different characters, not even as a permanent thing.

If Steph has to replace someone, the most obvious choice is Harper Row, who wouldn't be missed by many people yet since she hasn't done anything that's actually of note. After her would be Tim, who I personally would not miss. Such a change could be made pretty quickly as long as their history together is explained. For her to replace anyone else, including Damian, would require a lot of time. Either she'd have to reintroduced and featured a great deal more than Harper Row for a while before getting rid of said character, or it would have to be a long time between to removal of the character and her replacement of him/her. Unless it would be another 3 issue thing and the character would change back quickly. Then it wouldn't matter

If Starling turns out to be a traitor as speculated in BOP, there would be a vacancy that Stephanie could be a very good fit for.

[ngroove]

No but if you want to cripple Babs again to bring back Steph then go for it.

No thank you, Swedish Chef.

[Rakiduam]

I think I would recent anyone in the suit if they kill Damian.

Right now I'm pretty neutral toward Harper but I think it would be better if they introduce character that could make their own place, instead to be replacing others.

[Mr Prince]

It doesn't have to be one or another. The Bat mythos is big enough for a Damien and a Steph, as well as a Cass, Bette and Harper. One of the things I liked pre-DCnU is each Bat character had carved out their own niche that highlighted all the types of stories you can tell with Bat characters. Batgirl/Steph was coming of age and some comedy, Batwoman deals with the esoteric and military (a wild, contrasting combo), etc.

I hope we get Spoiler back. And Cass whenever David Cain and the League of Assassins/Shadows rears its ugly head again. Kate and Bette should team up as a contrast to Batman and Robin.

[Bluebow]

A possiblity, Damian dies or is near death and Talia al Ghul tries an ancient magic ritual to restore "Robin". Due to a mis-translation or misunderstanding of the spell, instead of returning Damian to health, the magic brings a version of Stephanie from another universe, during or shortly after she was Robin for a brief time there. Stephanie is initially as unhappy as everyone else about this, no way of returning her to her own world can be found and despite the fact that it is not his fault Bruce feels he must offer her a home until this changes.Stephanie proves her worth and gradually becomes Robin, or Damian does recover and she reverts to being Spoiler.

[Sacred Knight]

Honestly if Damian dies I'd rather explore Harper Row as the new Robin over Stephanie. I like Stephanie, don't get me wrong, would love to see her again, but she didn't work as Robin before and I just don't think its worth going there again in the New 52. With Batgirl taken I'd rather simply wait for someone to reintroduce Spoiler at some point in the future.

As for Cassandra Cain I still stand by my belief that the character would work well in the New 52 setting as one with a non-Bat origin. Do something different with her...introduce her in Katana or something and make her a protege.

[Mr. Holmes]

She didn't work as Robin because the whole thing was set-up for her death. Carrie Kelly is proof such a Robin would be perfect.

Harper Row would lose her novelty if she went from a street smart asset of Batman to another sidekick.

[Bluebow]

Honestly if Damian dies I'd rather explore Harper Row as the new Robin over Stephanie. I like Stephanie, don't get me wrong, would love to see her again, but she didn't work as Robin before and I just don't think its worth going there again in the New 52. With Batgirl taken I'd rather simply wait for someone to reintroduce Spoiler at some point in the future.

I would like to see Stephanie return as the Girl Wonder. I would say that the reason it didn't work before is because it was never intended to, but was a trick to give Stephanie's subsequent death more emotional resonance. In my opinion she would work better than a newer character such as Harper Row because she already has a history and connection with both Bruce and Damian, whether in current continuity or not. There is also the aspect of Batman realising how deeply his actions affected Stephanie and trying to make amends for them, but obviously never admitting that to her.

[Chickfighter]

She didn't work as Robin because the whole thing was set-up for her death. Carrie Kelly is proof such a Robin would be perfect.

Harper Row would lose her novelty if she went from a street smart asset of Batman to another sidekick.

Thanks for saying that more calmly than I could. I thought the couple of months of Steph as Robin was one of the better and more exciting times in comics that I can recall.

[Bluebow]

Thanks for saying that more calmly than I could. I thought the couple of months of Steph as Robin was one of the better and more exciting times in comics that I can recall.

She was just what a Robin is supposed to be, a bright counterpoint to the darkness of Batman.

[Sacred Knight]

Fair enough guys. I'm not that astute in that area of history not only for Batman but all of DC as I was out of the loop around then, so I wasn't aware it was the plan all along to kill off Steph. I thought it was a knee-jerk reaction after the move proved unpopular or something.

[sunofdarkchild]

Fair enough guys. I'm not that astute in that area of history not only for Batman but all of DC as I was out of the loop around then, so I wasn't aware it was the plan all along to kill off Steph. I thought it was a knee-jerk reaction after the move proved unpopular or something.

There are contradictory accounts, but they all say that the decision to make her Robin stemmed from the decision to kill her. According to Willingham, the person who wrote her issues as Robin, it was his idea to make her Robin to 'give her a moment of glory' before killing her. According to Didio it was his idea because he thought she was too minor a character for people to care about her death so making her Robin was 'necessary' to get the right emotional impact. I'm inclined to believe Willingham, given that when he said it he acknowledged that in hindsight it was a bad move and still took the blame. Didio's version just further proves that he is a horrible, horrible storyteller, because the facts that she was Tim's long-time girlfriend, Cass' best friend, and Bruce had clearly been shown to care for her before were all any halfway decent writer would need to get the right emotional impact from her death.

Reaction to her being Robin was actually very positive. The only high profile negative reactions at the time that I have come across were people who were suspicious that DC was not serious about it and would end up doing what they ultimately did. It was far less controversial than her becoming Batgirl, or being replaced as Batgirl. Sales of Robin also spiked higher than they'd been in years. In fact every issue of other series she appeared in as Robin saw significant sales spikes for those issues. I'd say that DC made a long term sales blunder in not being serious about making her Robin and lost their best chance to have Robin sell 10k more per month for several years and to turn Steph into a character as marketable as Tim or Jason.

The main problem with her time as Robin is they tried to have it both ways, that she was both good and a failure, and the result was that after 5 issues where she saved Batman twice and Cass once they had Batman fire her for doing the exact same thing Tim or Dick did have done in the exact same situation. So rather than her own failures causing her time as Robin to be cut short it ends up being that Batman never wanted her to be Robin and was looking for any excuse to get rid of her.

[BlueStarr86]

@sun: Batman's entire point for hiring Steph was so that he could get Tim off the proverbial bench, because Tim had quit because his father told him to, and he actually obeyed.

[Bluebow]

@sun: Batman's entire point for hiring Steph was so that he could get Tim off the proverbial bench, because Tim had quit because his father told him to, and he actually obeyed.

Stephanie surely knew this. Her reasons for going along with it may have included getting the training that she gained from Batman, wanting Tim to come back to being Robin herself or actually thinking she could prove herself and would get a fair chance to do so.

[godisawesome]

For the topic, absolutely not. Damian shouldn't die. He should survive so we get more hilarious interactions with Steph. He should join a Teen Titans-esque team with her as his babysitter for instant win.