RATE IT: Batman - Death of the Family redux

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

I read 40 pages of a story. Forty. That is plenty for me to decide not to waste any more of my hard-earned money on. I am sick to death of events and endless giant crossovers to begin with, and the first 40 pages of DotF not only did nothing to change my opinion of them, but also got me to drop all Bat-books across the board. None of which I have started buying again even though the crossover is finished.

So no, I did not vote in THIS poll, because no, I can't assign a number score to a storyline I read less than half of. But I did vote in your poll, because I didn't like the Joker face thing, and I hated the part of the story I did read enough to drastically change my comic-buying habits. I don't think that's unfair.

Fair enough. I approve your actions. (hahaha, just kidding I know my approval is irrelevant).

No, I agree. My poll wasn't really about how great the story was, if you dropped it, I'm glad you voted bad-bad.

[Raptor13]

As Snyder's story? I thought it was brilliant, well done, and enjoyable. He threw in pieces from all across Joker's history, had psychological horror aspects (which I always enjoy), the backups were top notch written (and actually relevant to the story!) and spun together a nice story and actually used that horrible face idea and turned it into something workable.

On top of that, Capullo is my favorite artist in the business, and drew everyone in character and gave all the details a gruesome beauty. Well done to him.

The crossover itself? Not so much. Batman and Robin, Teen Titans, RHatO, Batgirl, and even a few pages of Suicide Squad had great beginnings, but IMO flopped their 'endings'. No way a competent Robin actually thought that was Batman. The next two had great psychological torture to the main characters the first issue, then dropped it all for a lame death match conclusion. Batgirl having James show up was stupid and took away from both him an the Joker as characters. Harley seemed to have no feelings for Joker past the first few pages. Catwoman was atrocious from start to finish and had zero to do with the actual story. On a plus note, Detective was really good and even though the believability of Joker having enough time to do everything he did to Nightwing is zero, I enjoyed that tie in as well.

Overall, I loved Snyder's story and had fun collecting the crossover, and actually enjoyed most of them but they really weren't quality works.

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

I'd give it a 7 or 8. It's a relatively solid Joker story with some cool art but after a great start the thing steadily started to collapse. It sagged immensely in 15, picked up a little in 16 but soon collapsed on it's face in 17. There were too many tie-ins, most of which were either meaningless or poorly written. Joker talked too damn much. WE GET IT!!! JOKER SEES HIMSELF AS THE JESTER TO THE KING AND BLAHDY BLAH BLAH. NO NEED TO REPEAT IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN EVERY ISSUE. The back ups were pretty cool and it's always great to see Jock on a batman book. I maintain that somewhere, among all the hype and cross overs and nonsense there's a cool story Snyder had. It just got buried.

A cruel part of me loved the fact that all the wind from this event's sails was almost immediately stolen by Batman inc 8.

Now that I think about it 16 was the worse for me. 17 was ok, the Joker made his point (not one particularly worth a year of absence, though), but 16 ha too many weak cameos.

I didn't read tie ins and I think I'll never read a tie in again in my life (unless it is highly recommended). That policy makes reading a lot more pleasing.

I think you nailed something that I missed. The characterizations of Batman and the Joker were pretty good, but save Gordon, the rest of the characters were basically dummies (Harley and the Riddler were ok, but only in the backup)... And that's precisely because the Joker talked too damn much.

[Xarcon]

I gave it a 2. I feel like that might be a little low, but given that out of the 5-6 issues, I only liked the first one (and would only give it a 6 or 7 at best), I don't think it's worth more than a 4. At any rate, the story made me drop the series. The only Bat-Books left on my pull list now are Red Hood (assuming Tynion impresses me) and Detective.

I thought the whole court jester/king concept was too heavy-handed to the point of being off-putting. I think Snyder thought he was being a lot cleverer than he actually ended up being. Also, I failed to see how this story was in any way innovative. I remember Snyder touting the story as being the biggest, most epic story he could write and that it would be different than what came before. Granted, he says that for every story, but still. It just felt like a run-of-the-mill Joker story that someone decided to exaggerate, thinking that would make it different and special. It didn't.

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

I gave it a 2. I feel like that might be a little low, but given that out of the 5-6 issues, I only liked the first one (and would only give it a 6 or 7 at best), I don't think it's worth more than a 4. At any rate, the story made me drop the series. The only Bat-Books left on my pull list now are Red Hood (assuming Tynion impresses me) and Detective.

Red Hood? Detective? ... did they get any better after the first 3 issues? I can't believe I actually read 3 of each.

[Xarcon]

Red Hood? Detective? ... did they get any better after the first 3 issues? I can't believe I actually read 3 of each.

Red Hood got a lot better over the course of Lobdell's run. I don't know how Tynion's going to do, though.

For Detective, are you referring to Daniel's run or Layman's? It was a big pile of garbage with Daniel at the helm, but Layman has been awesome since he came aboard with #13 (I think that's when he took over).

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

Red Hood got a lot better over the course of Lobdell's run. I don't know how Tynion's going to do, though.

For Detective, are you referring to Daniel's run or Layman's? It was a big pile of garbage with Daniel at the helm, but Layman has been awesome since he came aboard with #13 (I think that's when he took over).

Detective is explaining. Not that DotF is impossible to match or anything, but I'd be really surprised of Lobdells garbage actually stopped sucking so hard and even imprved to the point of being better thant Snyder.

[MajorHoy]

Between the suckage of Death of the Family and what has happened in Batman Incorporated (which I don't buy in single issues; was trade-waiting it, but might not even bother now), I dropped Snyder's monotonous book (though I did love the pretty pictures) and am down to just Batgirl and Detective Comics for my Bat-fixes, and both those are more on "meh" levels than "must reads".
(The closest to a Bat-book I still buy and enjoy is Huntress in Worlds' Finest.)

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

Between the suckage of Death of the Family and what has happened in Batman Incorporated (which I don't buy in single issues; was trade-waiting it, but might not even bother now), I dropped Snyder's monotonous book (though I did love the pretty pictures) and am down to just Batgirl and Detective Comics for my Bat-fixes, and both those are more on "meh" levels than "must reads".
(The closest to a Bat-book I still buy and enjoy is Huntress in Worlds' Finest.)

I don't think Batman Inc. is Morrison at his best, but it's a fun read.

Snyder is a better than average writer, his stuff feels crafted, which is great considering that not so many writers at DC are good these days. However, as interesting as the story was, a sick Gordon Jr. never sat well with me, and by his second arc I started to noticed that he plays the same cool track over and over with different words. Death of the Family is different, it's good but it has many elements holding it back in my view. Mainly that the face thing is really stupid. It works well to establish that there are no boundaries for the Joker, which enhances the sense of danger when he has someone on his power; but it's also really, really stupid.

[wu-tang warrior]

It's weird, I gave it a 7, I thought it was a good Joker story, but this story is actually making me take a break from Snyder. He does things that kill me and I'm starting to nitpick everything, which I hate doing. I actually think Layman has a better handle on Batman than Snyder so I'm into Tek. I might give zero year a shot if I hear good things. I do think Snyder got Joker's voice down pretty good, and Capullo of course knocked it out.

[Namtab]

6 is the best I can do.

The best thing about it was Cap's art, but the ho-hum ending really brings it down.

[tec79]

I voted 5 as a Joker story just average.

[Moe Szyslak]

Somewhat off topic, but is it possible that there will be a second print run of the #15's in this series that originally featured die-cut covers (Nightwing, Detective, Red Hood, Teen Titans, Batman and Robin)? I'm interested in collecting the non die-cut second releases.