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  1. #106
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Has he ever supported any measures to stop it? That would be "against" gay marriage. Saying wghat he said is simply a safe move for a guy with a Muslim name hoping to become the first black president while we're on a ridiculous crusade in the middle east. I'd love to see an Obama quote anywhere near as vitriolic against gays as Orson Scott Card
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  2. #107
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
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    He has since changed his mind. This is not relevant to the discussion.
    Christ, do I have to do all the thinking for the entire fucking Internet? - Michael P

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    He has since changed his mind. This is not relevant to the discussion.
    Pretty much
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  4. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Pothier View Post
    I'm sure there are plenty of authors and creators that I would have a very sharp difference of opinion with. Unless it shows up in their work, I try to divorce their beliefs from what I enjoy.
    Agreed. There are people who disagree with me everywhere. If I boycotted everyone because they held an opinion that differed from mine, I'd have nothing to read. Heck, I wouldn't even read my own stuff, as I write characters who disagree with me all the time. I also think it's simply bad writing when it's obvious that a character is being used as the writer's mouthpiece. However, I've read Ender's Game and some of the Empire books. I don't think they're bad, and I don't see Card pushing some homophobic agenda in them. As long as he's not hurting anyone or encouraging harm to others, he's entitled to his beliefs.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valerie View Post
    As long as he's not hurting anyone or encouraging harm to others, he's entitled to his beliefs.
    He's working to deny people the right to marry and have families. That is hurting people.
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  6. #111
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    He's working to deny people the right to marry and have families. That is hurting people.
    No, only he is entitled to his beliefs that gays should be systematically discriminated against. We are not entitled to our beliefs that his words and actions should have consequences.
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  7. #112
    for the lulz 7thangel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    He's working to deny people the right to marry and have families. That is hurting people.
    and adopt, just in case someone doesn't get that from 'have families'

  8. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    To discuss this we have to look at the era's that Burroughs and Lovecraft came from.

    Burroughs was born in the 1800's and I'm sure a lot of that attitude of that era wasn't good really. I get the sense its why he based John Carter in the Civil War. Because the era he was born in , was a few years after the Civil War and I'm sure it was a hard fresh memory for everyone as well. Not to excuse it...but people can be product of where and what they are born to.

    Lovecraft as well was born around the same time period and it likely was something he saw fresh then as well.

    It shouldn't excuse Card for being a homophobe dickhead at all. But I can't help but wonder in the era he grew up in and where his childhood and beliefs weren't driven by a strong father who preached to hate the gays . Because I get the sense a lot of people take what they are born around and all and can't change. Its hard for them. They grew up with an image of what they feel life should be and everyone is now showing them its wrong.
    My point was that no one boycotted or said a thing about these men's views in context with modern entertainment. Was King boycotted against. Did the John Carter Movie not go on.

    That was my point. That someone with bizarre views is not shunned from work ( first amendment). We have the power to not buy and voice opinion.
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  9. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow knight View Post
    Why is this man homophobic? Is it because he disagrees with your liberal views. IIRC there are approximately 30 states and over 150 countries that don't recognize or allow gay marriage is everyone of those countries homophobic. People in the western world have is myopic view that they know better than anyone else. Phobic implies an irrational fear, from what I can read Card doesn't believe in homosexual marriage which has been the norm since biblical times. Stop this, there's nothing he has said that billions of people don't say throughout the world. He isn't advocating gassing, killing, beating, depriving of their jobs and denying them the right to live near him. Had he implied anything similar I would be with you in commending him.
    No, he's advocating a civil war to prevent the legalization of gay marriage.


    Whether you like it or not his view is middle road for people who live outside the liberal world that exist mostly in the east and west coast of the US.
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  10. #115

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    Just for the record Orson Scott CArd HAS advocated jailing homosexuals.

    Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books, not to be indiscriminately enforced against anyone who happens to be caught violating them, but to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those who flagrantly violate society's regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society.
    So not all homosexuals, just enough of them to make an example.

    How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.

    Biological imperatives trump laws. American government cannot fight against marriage and hope to endure. If the Constitution is defined in such a way as to destroy the privileged position of marriage, it is that insane Constitution, not marriage, that will die.
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  11. #116

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    I didnt know he said all that. That is beyond crank talk.

    Now Im shocked there isnt more outrage.
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  12. #117
    14 Time Rita's Champion SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJP View Post
    My point was that no one boycotted or said a thing about these men's views in context with modern entertainment. Was King boycotted against. Did the John Carter Movie not go on.

    That was my point. That someone with bizarre views is not shunned from work ( first amendment). We have the power to not buy and voice opinion.
    To be honest , my memories of the John Carter film that happened , there wasn't any racism involved. Yes , Carter served in the Civil War. But the period was barely mentioned at all.
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  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valerie View Post
    As long as he's not hurting anyone or encouraging harm to others, he's entitled to his beliefs.
    He's entitled to his beliefs regardless. Everyone is. That includes the people who are calling out DC for hiring him. The fact that people are vocally opposing his position does not constitute that entitlement being taken away from him.

  14. #119
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    Are the Ender Games written all doom and gloom?

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  15. #120
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    People in this discussion should take a second and think about the difference between having and stating an unpopular opinion (or even a horrible popular one), and actually physically and financially going out of your way to suppress the rights of others you see as inferior. If all he did was say in interviews, "I think gay marriage is wrong" or even "I think homosexuality is disgusting and I want no part of it in any society I live in" I'd say fine, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm not going to be buying your products based on our difference of opinion but I also won't be calling for you to be fired or blacklisted. If you join a group that's actively working to suppress the rights of individuals you see as inferior however, using your clout and platform to do it (clout and platform provided by people buying your products) then I'm not only not going to contribute to that I'm going to stand up and call on others to withhold support.

    Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't see the distinction? I brought it up 3 times in the Superman forum thread on this subject, and nobody on the opposition responded. I don't know if it's because they didn't have a satisfactory answer or the thread page count kept ticking up due to the outrage, but I'd like a rational answer.
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