So...who actually won AvX??

[mikekerrIII]

It was stated in 2 books for the 1000th time. Just because you ignore it. Doesn't make it any less true. Even Cyclops agreed with him. So yes. He did help ring back mutants.

It is stated in the books that he says he had a plan, but outside the word of an amoral hypocrite there is no evidence of that plan shown. What is the evidence, outside of Tony''s word that he had a plan.What single action did he take to implement that plan

[mikekerrIII]

Ah no. Again. As stated by Brevport and Gillien. It was coming to do destruction.

READ the whole damned quote from Gillen than try again, what is in the books disagrees

[mikekerrIII]

I did read them. It was destroying everything in it's path.

If it wanted to destroy the Earth I could have at any time during this event, or any time during the years when it was on earth

[mikekerrIII]

Talk about reading books. They're called AVX #12 and AVX Consequences #4. Other people seem to have read it too, but yet you missed it. Wonder why?

Nothing those books shows Tony implement a plan, they have a liar saying he had a plan but no evidence of a plan

[mikekerrIII]

Ah no. You're changing you're tune again.

That is an outright lie, post a quote or apologize

[godzilla2099]

I myself happen to drink Gillen's Kool Aid. That's why I believed him when he said:



"Scott was right in many ways. However it's also worth stressing -- and I suspect this is the thing which most pro-Scott advocates are skirting over -- is that if we did everything like Scott said, the Earth would have been destroyed. Hope wasn't ready. She was ready eventually but that required time."
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=41813



As far as the P5 doing good, really the problem is even if they were doing good you essentially needed the Phoenix in Hope to restore the mutants. We're told in issue 12 that Hope was the only person strong enough to let go of the Phoenix, which essentially meant that the Avengers needed to beat it out of them. And again, lets' not forget the P5 themselves. Pretty much all of them were happy to be freed from the Phoenix. Colossus was on his knees thanking god the Avengers helped him and his sister.

Yes, I saw that link. So what was Jean and Rachel's excuse for not attending the 2 days of water bucket training? That defense has to be the most horrible explanation I read. Ever

Hope was special. Phoenix was going to Earth to correct the Mutant Problem. That part was correct yet people still argue about it.

Hell, I read more Avenger Books than X-Men but I can't see how in the world anybody can think the Avengers were right. The Avengers fked up. Royally.

[XPac]

READ the whole damned quote from Gillen than try again, what is in the books disagrees

The thing is, the books don't disagree with what Gillen said.

Gillen said Hope wasn't ready and couldn't control the Phoenix on the moon... and on the moon Hope says the same thing. She says the same thing later in Wolverine and the X-Men.



The comments of Gillen, Breevort, and Hope herself all support each other. As do the statements in NA where we're told she needs training in Kun Lun to control the Phoenix... which she ends up getting and using sucessfully to control the Phoenix.

What in the books exactly disproves what Gillen, Breevort, and Hope all say?

[XPac]

Yes, I saw that link. So what were Jean and Rachel's excuse for not attending the 2 days of water bucket training? That defense has to be the most horrible explanation I read. Ever

Hope was special. Phoenix was going to Earth to correct the Mutant Problem. That part was correct yet people still argue about it.

Hell, I read more Avenger Books than X-Men but I can't see how in the world anybody can think the Avengers were right. The Avengers fked up. Royally.

Is it really all that horrible to decide that many the Phoenix shouldn't be easy to control? Just because two powerful telepaths like Jean and Rachel can do it shoudln't mean than Hope can. Plus, Hope needed to do a very specific thing with the Phoenxi that Jean and Rachel didn't.

And I'm not arguing that Phoenix wasn't necessarily coming to earth to fix mutants... what I'm arguing is that there were 2 paths. Again, NA tried to emphasis this point. ONE possible path was to restore the mutants... the other was to bring about the celestrial rebirth (which is just a fancy way of saying it was going to destroy humanity).



That's the half of the equation that you're ignoring. It could have been either... but the heroes prevented one and brought about the other. Like heroes do. This wasn't just about the Avengers "poking" anything (though I would still argue that's something they needed to do). Similar to what occured with Fongji, the outcome we got depended on Hope being ready. On the moon she wasn't... and that was the problem. But fortunately the Avengers were able to get her ready, and we ended up with the result we got instead.

[stussyjones]

When did the Phoenix say that?

In AvX 12........

[XPac]

In AvX 12........

If we're talking issue 12 he also says there he's going to destroy humanity.

[stussyjones]

If we're talking issue 12 he also says there he's going to destroy humanity.

Delete please.

[Viteh]

When did the Phoenix say that?

In Uncanny X-Men 17.

[Viteh]

That's was the dark Phoenix. In the beginning of AvX12 the Phoenix said its coming back to fix Wanda mess which support cyclops stance about it.

To be fair, I think that was Iron Man.

[stussyjones]

To be fair, I think that was Iron Man.

Yeah I just saw the image I forgot it was ironman. You most likely right about uncanny x men17

[Viteh]

Yeah I just saw the image I forgot it was ironman. You most likely right about uncanny x men17

Yeah in UXM 17 Emma Frost talks with the Phoenix and it says it's here for a reason.