Batman's greatest enemy?

[The Baked Batman]

Who do you think Batman's greatest enemy is? I know most people would say the Joker or even Ra's but I think the one person who almost completely destroyed not only Batman but Bruce Wayne too would have to be Dr. Hurt. In R.I.P. he comes THIS close to destroying everything but was defeated because Bruce had created the "Batman of Zur En Arrh" almost on a whim. Not to mention Hurt releases all the doctored photos and news articles to try and destroy the Wayne family name. And then in Batman and Robin Must Die! he returns as Bruce's father (not literally) and again tries to destroy the Wayne name.

I guess one could argue that the Black Glove is his greatest enemy since that is the organization that Hurt belongs to, but the group targets and destroys "Good" people with their yearly(?) game of "Good vs Evil" while Hurt is the one who has a hard on for destroying Bruce Wayne/ Batman personally.

What do you think?

[ngroove]

Greatest Enemy = most consistently recurring in quantity, not just quality alone, throughout the years, decades, enemy.

Joker.

Why consider Ra's THE Greatest too? Along with Joker, the following are greater than him first: Penguin, Riddler, Two-Face, Scarecrow: yes, even 3 Scarecrow stories, to 1 Ra's...

[David Walton]

Just to be different, I'll say Two-Face.

Joker's an irredeemable bastard, but Harvey Dent is a personal failure of sorts. Not that it's Bruce's fault, but he certainly feels more responsible for Harvey's well being than Joker's.

[ngroove]

Just to be different, I'll say Two-Face.

There are many characters I find more interesting than Joker (at least the Joker of the past twenty-five years) - Penguin, Riddler, Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Cavalier, TweedleDee and TweedleDum, Humpty Dumpty - BUT, facts are the facts, you cannot just say he is THE GREATEST based on "you like him better than him".

[David Walton]

There are many characters I find more interesting than Joker (at least the Joker of the past twenty-five years) - Penguin, Riddler, Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Cavalier, TweedleDee and TweedleDum, Humpty Dumpty - BUT, facts are the facts, you cannot just say he is THE GREATEST based on "you like him better than him".

I gave my reasoning in the post you half-quoted. Here's the other half again:

Joker's an irredeemable bastard, but Harvey Dent is a personal failure of sorts. Not that it's Bruce's fault, but he certainly feels more responsible for Harvey's well being than Joker's.

[DebkoX]

Joker. Or Gotham. Even himself.

[ngroove]

I gave my reasoning in the post you half-quoted. Here's the other half again:

Save your speech. If somebody says Joker, "reasons" would be nice (more than overrated lame Jason Todd / Barbara Gordon), but reasoning for convincing is not really needed anyways, since everyone already knows he is THE greatest enemy.

Joker's still the most known of Bat-nemeses, long does not take a watching of "Dark Knight" for EVERYONE to know him.

[SicSexSix]

Joker has caused so much damage to Bats throughout the years. He lacks the crude code of honor or respect that Ra's or even Bane has. Though Bane was the guy who thoroughly defeated Batman, that shouldn't be overlooked. He crushed him in battle and then took over Gotham, Ra's and Dr. Hurt have only come close. Joker has succeeded in hurting him deeply, but still has yet to decisively beat him. Those are definitely the top 4, at least in my opinion, as they all have claims to be numero uno based on victories on various levels.

[ngroove]

Joker has caused so much damage to Bats throughout the years. He lacks the crude code of honor or respect that Ra's or even Bane has. Though Bane was the guy who thoroughly defeated Batman, that shouldn't be overlooked. He crushed him in battle and then took over Gotham, Ra's and Dr. Hurt have only come close. Joker has succeeded in hurting him deeply, but still has yet to decisively beat him. Those are definitely the top 4, at least in my opinion, as they all have claims to be numero uno based on victories on various levels.

Bane is not really all that reccurring either, not counting Secret Six, since that's not a Bat-Book anyways.

Characters greater:

1. Joker
2. Penguin
3. Riddler
4. Two-Face
5. Catwoman (if still counted as an enemy, keep in mind she is still a cat-burglar, apparently with issues centering stealing jewels, not "hero" today still)
6. Scarecrow
7. Poison Ivy
8. Mad Hatter (commonly a lesser loser in "done-in-ones" because that's how easy for Bats to beat him, but he's getting up there of recent)
9. Mister Freeze
10. Clayface (Apparently lacking in quality, as there's only ONE good Clayface story so far in New 52, but can't question quantity!)

[David Walton]

Save your speech. If somebody says Joker, "reasons" would be nice (more than overrated lame Jason Todd / Barbara Gordon), but reasoning for convincing is not really needed anyways, since everyone already knows he is THE greatest enemy.

Joker's still the most known of Bat-nemeses, long does not take a watching of "Dark Knight" for EVERYONE to know him.

The OP wasn't asking which nemesis is more well known, but which one was truly Batman's greatest enemy.

It's a subjective thought exercise.

I chose Two-Face because he's a personal failure for Bruce. Harvey was his ally and a friend. I think it's more difficult to deal with someone you feel like you should be able to reach but can't than a lost cause.

But it's not the kind of question you can answer with 'facts.' It's like asking whether you'd rather be pushed off the Empire State building or ran over by a Mac truck.

[The Baked Batman]

Greatest Enemy = most consistently recurring in quantity, not just quality alone, throughout the years, decades, enemy.

Joker.

Why consider Ra's THE Greatest too? Along with Joker, the following are greater than him first: Penguin, Riddler, Two-Face, Scarecrow: yes, even 3 Scarecrow stories, to 1 Ra's...

I don't consider Ra's to be the greatest. And "greatest" doesn't mean the most used in comics. I meant "greatest" as in the villain who came the closest to actually destroying Batman.

[DebkoX]

Its easily Joker.

[ngroove]

The OP wasn't asking which nemesis is more well known, but which one was truly Batman's greatest enemy.

It's a subjective thought exercise.

I chose Two-Face because he's a personal failure for Bruce. Harvey was his ally and a friend. I think it's more difficult to deal with someone you feel like you should be able to reach but can't than a lost cause.

But it's not the kind of question you can answer with 'facts.' It's like asking whether you'd rather be pushed off the Empire State building or ran over by a Mac truck.

As mentioned, Greatest is a combination of most quality WITH quantity. Two-Face has been used a LOT and often played pretty multi-layered too since he came back in 1971, BUT, still can't top Joker's 125 appearances, according to Comicvine, in Batman vol.1, vs Two-Face's 65 appearances in Batman vol.1.

[David Walton]

I don't consider Ra's to be the greatest. And "greatest" doesn't mean the most used in comics. I meant "greatest" as in the villain who came the closest to actually destroying Batman.

In that context, I'm not sure the Joker's ever come close. Batman had a hard time after Jason Todd's death, but he carried on the good fight.

I think Batman is so oppositional to the Joker that he'll never let him win that battle. Their roles are established and neither of them are budging.

Bane came closest on a physical level, and if Jean Paul Valley hadn't gone nuts, Bruce would have passed on the mantle for good. So there's that to consider.

But like I said, I think Harvey gets under Batman's skin in a horrible way, because on some level Bruce feels like he should be able to save him but can't.

[The Baked Batman]

The OP wasn't asking which nemesis is more well known, but which one was truly Batman's greatest enemy.

It's a subjective thought exercise.

I chose Two-Face because he's a personal failure for Bruce. Harvey was his ally and a friend. I think it's more difficult to deal with someone you feel like you should be able to reach but can't than a lost cause.

But it's not the kind of question you can answer with 'facts.' It's like asking whether you'd rather be pushed off the Empire State building or ran over by a Mac truck.

Two-face happens to be my all time favorite Batman villain (I have a tattoo of his scratched coin on my arm) especially in the "Long Halloween" story arc. Having Harvey Dent go from being one of the three pivotal forces of "Good" in Gotham (other two being Gordan and Bats) to becoming the type of person he was trying to put away was a major blow to not only Batman but Gotham as well.