Last edited by Booshman; 02-11-2013 at 09:46 PM.
Klinton and Taylor51 - Thank you for your posts.
Klinton, the U.S. Supreme Court has not really ruled on the issue of same sex marriage, yet. As far as I know, they are expected to take it up soon, probably in the coming year.
"... Act, that each tomorrow find us farther than today."
Last edited by Booshman; 02-11-2013 at 10:02 PM.
Had the discussion between the church and the gay rights group been "HATER!" "HATER!" "HATER!" "HATER!" they probably wouldn't have gotten very far. Instead, they worked to get new legal protections for people who are GLBT. To try and put it another way, is it more important to shout some labels, or is it better to get some good legislation passed that helps people who are GLBT?
I agree that certain views can and do hurt people. I believe in civilly sharing those stories so that others can better understand and see how their views impact others. And yes, I say civilly, because, again, in my experience, just shouting names is a quick way to get others to not listen.
People want to call Mr. Card, NOM, etc. on their views? I'm all for that. In this case, I don't think the workplace, his employment (which is fiction writing), is the best arena for that.
Like I said before, my main issue is trying to improve the dialogue (on ALL sides) because I believe it can lead to better results.
"... Act, that each tomorrow find us farther than today."
Meanwhile in Gotham…
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women." - Conan
You're right that you have the right to say marriage equality is wrong. But this is the thing about genuine free speech. It's a two-way street.
Of course, you knew that already. But you're so wrapped up in this oft-repeated practice by the intolerant to use the concept of free speech as some kind of shield against the negative feedback from the people they speak their unacceptable views to. They know they'll get this sort of response ahead of time because they're surrounded by people that disagree with the viewpoint, so the favored defense is to contort "free speech" into their personal forcefield. What astounding irony.
The fact is, you wish to speak your views, but you're not able to accept when people start telling the truth about them. It's likely the reason you didn't respond to my last post, skipping over all of the uncomfortable questions I've asked you and instead deciding to repeat yourself to other people in the hopes that no one would notice how many of your points were already disproved with no rebuttal.
I will agree that overt name-calling isn't always healthy, though I completely understand the passion behind it. After all, if someone told me to my face that my life was less valid than theirs, I would find it difficult to think of them in a super-positive way. What I find unacceptable is when such a person pretends that they are, in some way, being victimized by the response to their spoken views.
No, sir. If you're a comedian who tells a terrible joke, you should not be surprised when the crowd starts to boo. The exit is to your left. You can stay and finish your set or you can walk out. Either way, you still told a bad joke and the audience isn't going to let you off the hook for it. In fact, they all had cameras in their phones and this is going viral in about five seconds.
It's easy to sit on Mount Olympus throwing lightning down at the villagers below whose faces you can barely tell apart. Why would one feel sorry for anyone but the villagers in such a scenario?
Has DC's change more-or-less recent change in editorial changed its stance on homosexuality being acceptable? I haven't read Card, should we expect homophobic right-wing messages to pop up in this first arc of Adventures?
A robotic journey toward the American Dream: MADE in USA.
And actually it is rare that terms like bigot are applied to actual people in these discussions. Normally they are applied to the person's actions, words, or in the case of comics a specific storyline. Then someone over reacts because they saw the word bigot and begins to claim that someone called the writer or company bigoted.
You can advocate for civil discourse if you like americanwonder, but it is most often not those who are oppressed that start slinging mud first. Your ideas are not new, and if you think that anyone here has not tried being "civil" before you are sadly mistaken. In fact it is extremely common for minorities to have your point of view when they first enter these types of conversations. However, it becomes increasingly hard to respect those who have a track record of not respecting you. What is really going on is not a simple lack of civility. People just don't see the point in mincing words. Why the song and dance? Why not call something what it is? And of course what may work face to face does not work online. For internet discussions people are less likely to censor their negative views.
You need to understand that minorities (and women) compare notes. If someone had noticed that speaking "civilly" worked they would have passed out the recipe. In some cases no matter how "civil" you are you will be labeled a militant. In others the conversation does not move at all and the minority in question just gets the run around. Even the most eloquent of us get are susceptible to the same treatment. Often the fact that someone dared to speak on the subject at all is enough to create waves of negativity. And as it stands people have noticed that "allies" ( straight, white or male) tend to get more respectful responses for saying the exact same thing as members of the oppressed group.
A far as the boycott is concerned. I have spoken to a decent amount of people who did not know of Card's political activities before they heard of this boycott. They have also never heard of NOM. Now they have. I would say that creating awareness is good enough and possibly a large part of why the boycott was started in the first place.
Last edited by Mecegirl; 02-12-2013 at 01:40 AM.
If you can't go to the trouble of examining your own beliefs before sharing them, then don't whine like a bitch when you're called out on them. - ChadH
Isn't Card the one who wrote such a godawful Ultimate Iron Man series , Marvel basically made it a mini-series...because it sucked so hard ?
"Heads up-- If Havok's position in UA #5 really upset you, it's time to drown yourself hobo piss. Seriously, do it. It's the only solution." - Rick Remender
Sucks 200 character limit.