Would you rather see the UU end or merge with 616?

[Darman456]

People don't get paid to write fan-fiction.

This is true. It's unfortunate that some of the fan-fiction out there is better than the crap I've been fed, particularly Miles, from the Ultimate Universe.

[charliehustle415]

This is true. It's unfortunate that some of the fan-fiction out there is better than the crap I've been fed, particularly Miles, from the Ultimate Universe.

I feel that way with the Ultimates book right now sheesh, what the hell is going on.

[MarvelMaster616]

While it would be cool to see these same characters go on a different path, I just don't think it would work. An "Ultimate Universe 2" would kind of go against everything the UU stood for when it started, in that it would be complicating canon to a major extent. Plus, I think it would hurt the marketability of the UU. While I would certainly buy a set of "What if Ultimatum didn't happen" books, I can't see them really taking off.

That's not to say that it couldn't work. Earth 2 has obviously been revisited several different times. My point is just that continuing to call it the Ultimate Universe would probably defeat the purpose. Earth 2 works as a name, because it represents a place in the multiverse. It would be easier if they were to just end the UU properly, waited a few years, and then launched a new side-universe. I just don't know if it would work on a large scale again, like it did a decade ago.

I think it'd be great if Marvel just did something new, from the ground up. "The Marvel Universe, but set in prehistoric times" or something like that. Sure, it's little more than a play on 1602, 2099, or any of those Universes, but there are a ton of different scenarios you could run. If Marvel were to actually put some strong effort into it, it could be something big.

To be fair, the UU has already gone against everything it stood for when it started. It began as the gold standard, a Marvel universe that felt more realistic and contemporary. Marvel has long since abandoned that. Now every writer and editor has stated outright that the purpose of the UU is to tell stories they can't get away with in 616. And I don't think that can hold up long term. And I think it shows in how much lower the sales are of the current Ultimate books compared to the early Ultimate books. I can see a reboot working because unfortunately, fans will buy books that just have their favorite characters in them. They may be lousy stories with lousy art. But if they have well-known characters with a new twist, fans will be more inclined to give them a chance.

Also, I can't see Marvel "waiting" with Ultimate if it ended. Marvel has shown in recent years that they have no patience when it comes to relaunches. Just look how quickly they relaunched Uncanny X-men and Uncanny X-Force. The Ultimate brand is still viable, but I think it needs an overhaul. And at this point, a reboot is the only way for it to become even close to what it once was. The success of Earth 2 shows that a side-universe title can work. And Ultimate's early success showed that they can breed new ideas. Ultimate really hasn't done anything close to what it was initially set up to do in years. And I'm still convinced that it will end the day Brian Bendis leaves Ultimate Spider-Man, whenever that may be. I don't think that'll happen this year or even next year for that matter. But it will happen eventually and when that time comes, I think Ultimate will be in need of a reboot to become viable again.

[pgtyner]

I think I'd rather see the 616 Universe end.

Exactly!...I thnk they have messed 616 up so much that it shold end!

[CaptainMarvell]

To be fair, the UU has already gone against everything it stood for when it started. It began as the gold standard, a Marvel universe that felt more realistic and contemporary. Marvel has long since abandoned that. Now every writer and editor has stated outright that the purpose of the UU is to tell stories they can't get away with in 616. And I don't think that can hold up long term. And I think it shows in how much lower the sales are of the current Ultimate books compared to the early Ultimate books. I can see a reboot working because unfortunately, fans will buy books that just have their favorite characters in them. They may be lousy stories with lousy art. But if they have well-known characters with a new twist, fans will be more inclined to give them a chance.

Also, I can't see Marvel "waiting" with Ultimate if it ended. Marvel has shown in recent years that they have no patience when it comes to relaunches. Just look how quickly they relaunched Uncanny X-men and Uncanny X-Force. The Ultimate brand is still viable, but I think it needs an overhaul. And at this point, a reboot is the only way for it to become even close to what it once was. The success of Earth 2 shows that a side-universe title can work. And Ultimate's early success showed that they can breed new ideas. Ultimate really hasn't done anything close to what it was initially set up to do in years. And I'm still convinced that it will end the day Brian Bendis leaves Ultimate Spider-Man, whenever that may be. I don't think that'll happen this year or even next year for that matter. But it will happen eventually and when that time comes, I think Ultimate will be in need of a reboot to become viable again.

I agree with all of those points. Ultimate is supposed to be an alternative to 616. Don't like what Cyclops is doing in 616? Maybe you'll like his story better in Ultimate. Don't like Superior Spider-man and miss the real Peter Parker? Try Ultimate Spider-man. Don't like how big the Avengers have gotten? Try Ultimates. But they don't really have that right now. They want to give us something that they would never do in 616? How about have a time travel story that puts everything back the way it was before Ultimatum, which basically makes all the stories told since then irrelevant. There's something that would never happen in 616. Years of stories that never happened because someone changed the timeline. It would be cool to see some of the elements from those stories bleed through to the next timeline though. Like a good Reed developing an idea for the City and a dome. Have Mach Two appear in an Ultimate X-Men story. It would be kind of like Fringe's final season. Basically everything that happened in that entire season got wiped out. Change the cover template back to the way they were then and continue with the numbering, so Ultimate X-Men #101, Ultimate Fantastic Four #61, etc. Don't let this line get stale, get crazy. And not "they really think they're going to sell books with these characters?" crazy, but "OMG that's freakin awesome!!" crazy. They tried the first kind of crazy and its not working. Time to change it up.

[Goggindowner]

I agree with all of those points. Ultimate is supposed to be an alternative to 616. Don't like what Cyclops is doing in 616? Maybe you'll like his story better in Ultimate. Don't like Superior Spider-man and miss the real Peter Parker? Try Ultimate Spider-man. Don't like how big the Avengers have gotten? Try Ultimates. But they don't really have that right now. They want to give us something that they would never do in 616? How about have a time travel story that puts everything back the way it was before Ultimatum, which basically makes all the stories told since then irrelevant. There's something that would never happen in 616. Years of stories that never happened because someone changed the timeline. It would be cool to see some of the elements from those stories bleed through to the next timeline though. Like a good Reed developing an idea for the City and a dome. Have Mach Two appear in an Ultimate X-Men story. It would be kind of like Fringe's final season. Basically everything that happened in that entire season got wiped out. Change the cover template back to the way they were then and continue with the numbering, so Ultimate X-Men #101, Ultimate Fantastic Four #61, etc. Don't let this line get stale, get crazy. And not "they really think they're going to sell books with these characters?" crazy, but "OMG that's freakin awesome!!" crazy. They tried the first kind of crazy and its not working. Time to change it up.

Normally I would hate a retcon of that nature, but If everything since Ultimatum, including Ultimatum, where wiped away and set back to the way it was then, I might actually be good with it. There has been very very little that I have enjoyed since then. Hickman's Ultimates and Ultimate Hawkeye were both good, but other than that......that's about it really. IMO anyway.

[Xistel]

I prefer Ultimate Spider-man (peter) to it's 616 version. But i think it' would be hard to pull off a transfer. ALL of spidey 616 (friends and foes) would have to transfer out and all of UU would have to transfer in. i'd like it, but not practical

[Flash Gordon]

Question: If you guys have bailed on the Ultimates U, when and why? I bailed a little after DoSM.

I stopped reading USM after the LOEB WAVE. Disgusting stuff.

The whole line is pretty redundant now, especially after the success of MARVEL NOW. I'd just put the UU out of its misery already. Maybe launch a new "sleek" and "modern" MU down the road.

[MarvelMaster616]

I agree with all of those points. Ultimate is supposed to be an alternative to 616. Don't like what Cyclops is doing in 616? Maybe you'll like his story better in Ultimate. Don't like Superior Spider-man and miss the real Peter Parker? Try Ultimate Spider-man. Don't like how big the Avengers have gotten? Try Ultimates. But they don't really have that right now. They want to give us something that they would never do in 616? How about have a time travel story that puts everything back the way it was before Ultimatum, which basically makes all the stories told since then irrelevant. There's something that would never happen in 616. Years of stories that never happened because someone changed the timeline. It would be cool to see some of the elements from those stories bleed through to the next timeline though. Like a good Reed developing an idea for the City and a dome. Have Mach Two appear in an Ultimate X-Men story. It would be kind of like Fringe's final season. Basically everything that happened in that entire season got wiped out. Change the cover template back to the way they were then and continue with the numbering, so Ultimate X-Men #101, Ultimate Fantastic Four #61, etc. Don't let this line get stale, get crazy. And not "they really think they're going to sell books with these characters?" crazy, but "OMG that's freakin awesome!!" crazy. They tried the first kind of crazy and its not working. Time to change it up.

I think there's definitely a market for an alternative Marvel book where fans can go to if they don't care for what's happening in 616. That's how I got into Ultimate initially. I really didn't like the direction the 616 books were going so I gave Ultimate a try and it was at the top of my pull list every month for years. I think Marvel could definitely capture that again because this whole "do what we can't do in 616" can only go so far. Eventually, fans are going to want to see their favorite characters and not derivatives. And 616 is already taking a lot of Ultimate elements and incorporating them, most notably a black Nick Fury. Moreover, Marvel is putting more time and energy into 616, much more so than they were in Ultimate. Top talent like Jonathan Hickman aren't allowed to stay on Ultimate long term like Mark Millar was. They get other gigs.

For this reason, I think a mere time travel story to that resets Ultimate to a certain point won't work. Just setting the Ultimate universe back to a certain point before a certain era isn't enough. It needs a Flashpoint style reboot or some kind of cosmic threat, like the Phoenix Force or Galactus, to reset things to a point where it can start fresh. I don't mean to say that all the current elements have to be destroyed. I think Miles should remain in some form. So should characters like Monica Chang. But they shouldn't be mere replacements. They should have different roles. Now I don't think anything like this will happen soon. It all depends on when Bendis quits Ultimate Spider-Man. Until that happens, Marvel will stick out the current Ultimate status quo for as long as they can get away with it.

[HolyGhost]

Top talent like Jonathan Hickman aren't allowed to stay on Ultimate long term like Mark Millar was. They get other gigs.

How is Jonathan Hickman top talent? His stories are almost always the same. His avengers and new avengers stories are mediocre and have been done already. He was only writing the Ultimates so that he could take advantage of adding a well-known book to his name and use that to try and get a bigger book. Even this Sam Humphries is just using the Ultimates so that he can add it to his resume so that he can write X-force. It isn't about how long they are "allowed" to stay. They could stay on the book for years if they wanted to like Millar but they don't have any sense of loyalty they just want to use these books to get to better places.

[Heroid]

I think both the regular Marvel U. and the Ultimate Marvel U. are both so messed up that they both should just end. Be brave and reboot from scratch, something like DC did in the 60's with the new Flash and Green Lantern and Justice League of America, not like the semi-reboot/Wildstorm make-over of the New 52. And in that reboot, there should be less inter-connected continuity with each title setting its own tone with its own take on the overall universe. No more "must-buy!" events and line-wide cross-overs.

The Marvel Universe ended for me with Civil War and the Ultimate U. ended with DoSM. Though every now and then I pick up a book or two to see if things have improved, for the most part they have not and I have no real interest in anything Marvel anymore. I am the "lapsed" reader they say they want to lure back.

Image has some pretty awesome books.

[charliehustle415]

I think both the regular Marvel U. and the Ultimate Marvel U. are both so messed up that they both should just end. Be brave and reboot from scratch, something like DC did in the 60's with the new Flash and Green Lantern and Justice League of America, not like the semi-reboot/Wildstorm make-over of the New 52. And in that reboot, there should be less inter-connected continuity with each title setting its own tone with its own take on the overall universe. No more "must-buy!" events and line-wide cross-overs.

The Marvel Universe ended for me with Civil War and the Ultimate U. ended with DoSM. Though every now and then I pick up a book or two to see if things have improved, for the most part they have not and I have no real interest in anything Marvel anymore. I am the "lapsed" reader they say they want to lure back.

Image has some pretty awesome books.

I completely agree there are times I'm reading a book but chucks of story are missing because of a crossover event.

[Xistel]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot lately.

I'd be down for one of three things. unfortunately not one will ever happen.

1 - Have Marvel close down both universes and start a new one, kind of with the same original ideas as the UU in its inception.

2- Have both 616 and UU merge and form a new Marvel Universe (it would be cool to have an event seen from both sides - UU and 616 - that lead to the merge). Keep the good things about 616 and add the better things from UU (i.e. Keep 616 Iron Man, replace 616 Scarlet Spider with Miles Morales). I have to be honest and say I'd like to have Ultimate Peter to come back and replace 616 Peter. I believe he is the best version.
This of course raises a question about overlapping supporting cast. Let's say Ultimate Peter replaces 616. Move all his supporting cast and replace the 616 version.

3- Do number 2 but as a digital comic only. Without erasing 616 or UU. Just as an experiment. If it succeeded, move to number 2.


All I know is, the UU will shut down eventually and it'd be a shame to lose such great characters

[thwhtGuardian]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot lately.

I'd be down for one of three things. unfortunately not one will ever happen.

1 - Have Marvel close down both universes and start a new one, kind of with the same original ideas as the UU in its inception.

2- Have both 616 and UU merge and form a new Marvel Universe (it would be cool to have an event seen from both sides - UU and 616 - that lead to the merge). Keep the good things about 616 and add the better things from UU (i.e. Keep 616 Iron Man, replace 616 Scarlet Spider with Miles Morales). I have to be honest and say I'd like to have Ultimate Peter to come back and replace 616 Peter. I believe he is the best version.
This of course raises a question about overlapping supporting cast. Let's say Ultimate Peter replaces 616. Move all his supporting cast and replace the 616 version.

3- Do number 2 but as a digital comic only. Without erasing 616 or UU. Just as an experiment. If it succeeded, move to number 2.


All I know is, the UU will shut down eventually and it'd be a shame to lose such great characters

Marvel: Infinite Crisis...I can dig that.

[Xistel]

Marvel: Infinite Crisis...I can dig that.

It's a bold move, I admit. But I like it. Maybe the character selection of who stays and who is "deleted" could be voted on by the readers to some extent.