Did the New52 Reboot Go Far Enough?

[Choppa]

No it absolutely did not go far enough and I agree that there should have been a full reboot.

I found the Earth 2 stuff more interesting and exciting because it started from the beginning and actually changed things in unexpected ways. We didn't necessarily know how the stories would unfold.

I also would have liked a big crossover story to end the old DCU and be a bridge to the, instead of randomly relaunching everything with no story behind it.

[ascended]

No it absolutely did not go far enough and I agree that there should have been a full reboot.

I found the Earth 2 stuff more interesting and exciting because it started from the beginning and actually changed things in unexpected ways. We didn't necessarily know how the stories would unfold.

I also would have liked a big crossover story to end the old DCU and be a bridge to the, instead of randomly relaunching everything with no story behind it.

Yeah, Im still not sure why DC didnt do that. I mean, the relaunch was going to cause waves no matter what, and the first issues were going to sell no matter what. Thats just the market. But they could have stretched it all out so much more, and made a much bigger profit, by pushing the idea of the "final battle" in the DCU before giving way to the relaunch. Everyone's story could have been wrapped up, loose ends taken care of, and all the while sales would be higher than normal as fans read about the final days of the DCU, and then the first days of the DCnU. Hell, if the execution was good enough, people might have even been more open to the relaunch.

I think someone above Didio's head demanded that the comics division start turning a profit real quick or people would find themselves unemployed. The rushed aspects of the New52, the terrible sales and market average DC had, and the lack of a proper, high selling send off event to the old continuity, makes me think that DC was forced into desperate action by WB.

And yeah, Earth-2 is great. I love the world building and the big superhero universe contained in one title. Its one of the things I love about Invincible too, one book, and you get the whole universe. It has a level of consistency that you cant find in a shared universe spread across dozens of books.

[JasonTodd428]

No it absolutely did not go far enough and I agree that there should have been a full reboot.

I found the Earth 2 stuff more interesting and exciting because it started from the beginning and actually changed things in unexpected ways. We didn't necessarily know how the stories would unfold.

I also would have liked a big crossover story to end the old DCU and be a bridge to the, instead of randomly relaunching everything with no story behind it.

That's what I really enjoy about Earth 2. I really wish DC had taken a chance with this reboot by actually cleaning the slate for all their characters and not just the ones that were in trouble sales wise. Maybe bring some new faces to old roles. Batman would probably sell regardless of who was under the cowl so as an example of what I mean they could have made Dick Grayson Batman maybe in a world were Batman actually did die in a Crisis.

[Aquacatlungfish]

Overall and with admitted very successfully rare exceptions, legacy characters simply stink. They are almost always watered down versions of the originals that bring nothing to the table that the original already had. And then you get into the extension of where does one stop? Will there be a new person under a name every new decade? Talk about watering down a super hero concept....and frankly too many readers would completely lose interest, and at worst the readership would be hopelessly fractured amongst various versions. DC is too smart to (completely) fall into this really large hole that would ruin their company and line of comics.

Can you give me examples of watered down versions of legacy characters. I can only think of pre-crisis Jason Todd but after the Crisis...

Dick, Damian, Terry, Thomas and Crazy Jesus Azz Batman aren't watered down versions of Bruce Wayne.

Post Crisis the Todd, pre New 52 Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown and Damian aren't watered down versions of Dick.

Helena, Cass and Steph aren't watered down versions either. Even you've got to admit that Cass and Babs are nothing alike.

Kyle, Connor and Wally aren't like Hal, Ollie and Barry at all.

Silver Age heroes are nothing like Golden Age heroes.

The one legacy character I HATE is Barbara Gordon. Such a watered down version of Bette Kane .

[Choppa]

I think what's worse is how many perfect story opportunities there were to transition things to the DCnU. It could have been done during Final Crisis or could have involved all of the story seeds planted from Infinite Crisis, 52, Blackest Night, etc.

Does anyone know for a fact that DC was under pressure to speed things up?

[Old Sparky]

And the posters complaining about the execution of the reboot, you guys are missing the point. This thread isnt about that so much as whether DC went far enough into new territory. Not whether or not you think they pulled off what they did do.

They went in both directions... too far and not not far enough. That went far enough in that it screws with the old continuity without abandoning it and pretty much ruining things for fans of the old continuity. But because they tried to hold on to some of that old continuity stuff and jam it all into a shortened time span, it feels feels inorganic and forced. They wanted to start everything over, but its like they wanted to keep 10 years worth of stuff right from the get go, which kind of ruins the start and leaves them now recovering from a clunky restart.

What they should have done is followed Marvel's "Ultimate" (said in quotes because while I recognize the name attached to that continuity, I don't find anything about it to actually be ultimate) example and started the Nu52 continuity off small with maybe just one title... or one for each of the big three... and then allowed the new continuity to grow naturally on its own, exploring new ideas and directions without restriction concerning the old comics. If popular, it would be self-sustaining enough to warrant additional titles. If the old continuity proved more or less popular, they could shrink it or the new one accordingly. Instead, they decided to flip everyone the bird and forced their clunky reboot and over-hyped it to boost sales. And while this has worked out for some titles and characters, others are just absolutely horrible.

So... too far and not far enough.

[lazlo_toth]

I think they needed to wipe the slate clean, after putting together a proper send-off the "old" DCU that wrapped things up properly and sent everybody off with a bang. Maybe they were under pressure to get it done quickly. I don't know. But dropping things suddenly without giving readers proper resolution and tossing things out half-baked and without any co-ordination has been such a hallmark of things at DC since Didio took over, so I personally don't see that this was handled any differently from any of DC's other boondoggles. The New 52 got a HUGE response, and that's good, primarily because I don't want to see DC Comics go away. But the handful of legitimately good titles have been carrying the line, and it's been a year and a half now and I've seen NOTHING that suggests that the foundations of the new continuity were planned out carefully and they AREN'T just making it up as they go along. And sooner or later, that's gonna catch up to them. Personally, I think the mistake was in letting the people who were responsible for DC being in such a mess in the first place (Didio & Co.) be the ones who handled the reboot.

[jade_nova]

So I gotta ask. If DC had done away with Barry and Hal and most of the rest, if they had said "Y'know, let's try to expand and do something truly different this time, something strange and new and brave, with new characters and new ways of looking at things...." would you have been interested? Would you have been willing to accept a new Flash and Green Lantern and whatever else, if it had brought truly new techniques and avenues of thought with it?

I wouldn't mind seeing new versions of the Flash and Green Lantern if the older versions were given a good send off and the possibility of returning now then in cross Earth stories like the Golden Age versions did.