Thunderbolts #4 *Spoilers*

**IndigoMX9** · 02-07-2013, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Damage

First of all, hello everyone, I'm new here.

Personally, I think this book been improving with each issue. I share some of the criticisms that have been mentioned, such as the abuse of flashbacks and the few action scenes, but some of those scenes have been very good in my opinion (Elektra throwing a knife in the face of a soldier in issue # 2, Frank using a landmine against Madman in this issue, knowing that his improved vest would protect him from the impact).

The book has a light comedic tone, especially with the Deadpool interventions, I do not think we have to take the story too seriously. It's the first time I read something written by Way, so I have no prejudice against him.

Also, Dillon's art does not bother me, I got used to it in the Marvel Knights Punisher era, but I think that his level has decreased a since then.

Hey Damage, welcome aboard. I hope that more readers like you join the band wagon! I stand right there with you on everything you said except Steve Dillon, his art is OK. I'm looking forward to Phil Noto in issue #7.

Originally Posted by Damage

Yeah, I thought the plan was to left Elektra being capture on purpose, so she would infiltrate the enemy fortress and begin a slaughter inside. I thought she was going to free herself of those shackles, but it seems that, in the end, Danny Way decided that she would be released by any of his teammates instead, what a shame indeed.

You guys make a great point, Elektra should have been kicking ass instead of taking a beating. It's things like this that frustrates me the most. We are not used to seeing our favorite characters under a new writer. I do enjoy the book and I'm hoping that more people jump on the band wagon.

**TsaiMeLemoni** · 02-07-2013, 10:38 PM

I'm thinking a few people that have given up on the book as well as people who have decided not to try it will at least try one or two issues under Noto's art. I am hoping things drastically improve with the second arc; I am willing to pretty much just wave away alot of what I am not liking about this first one so long as it is setting up a good book.

**Super Robo Ape** · 02-08-2013, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by TsaiMeLemoni

It is frustrating that Elektra has basically been turned into the token damsel in distress for this arc. Hopefully through 5 and 6 she'll make up for lost time with much badassery (judging from the preview pages for 5, we will at least see her no longer in captivity and killing a few folks).

By her standards she has been ridiculously static in this storyline, other than being rescued she might as well have been part of the furniture.:(

**Nyadnar17** · 02-08-2013, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by TsaiMeLemoni

It is frustrating that Elektra has basically been turned into the token damsel in distress for this arc. Hopefully through 5 and 6 she'll make up for lost time with much badassery (judging from the preview pages for 5, we will at least see her no longer in captivity and killing a few folks).

Yeah that bothered me too. That fact that she kills a dude while chained up is kinda cool; I understand we needed a reason for the team to pull together; I get that the upcoming Punisher/Electra rekindle the romance needed some foreshadowing; But its is still aggravating. The next arc better make up for this indignity.

**TsaiMeLemoni** · 02-08-2013, 07:52 AM

^Unfortunately I don't think she even got to kill Awa, I think he shot himself.

**Super Robo Ape** · 02-08-2013, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by TsaiMeLemoni

^Unfortunately I don't think she even got to kill Awa, I think he shot himself.

At first I had thought Venom had shot him.

**TsaiMeLemoni** · 02-08-2013, 11:01 AM

In a way it's kinda sad (in a funny way) that one of the major components of their mission was to kill Awa, and then he goes and does himself in.

I wonder if his little speech will have any impact on Elektra though; Way mentioned that it would be harder for Ross to keep her on the team as the arcs go on, maybe she took Awa's words to heart and feels like she can't truly trust the rest of the team. Especially given how long it took them to rescue her...

**UltimateVenom** · 02-08-2013, 09:30 PM

I really want to like this book, and it is okay, but Dillon's art detracts from my ability to enjoy the title as much as Way's writing keeps me from "hearing" the characters. None of them feel right, to me.

Initially I went into this thinking "Alright, Venom back on the Thunderbolts", but realized that the title refers to Ross's old moniker.

I'm still picking up the book, because I like Venom, so hopefully it'll tighten up.

**jackolover** · 02-09-2013, 01:51 AM

We were supposed to have freaked when we saw Rulk had pulled a gamma ray flow out of the ground in Kata Jita. It is supposed to be the little secret the CIA was trying to get rid off by offing Awa, as Awa stated. If this Gamma stream has been in Kata Jita since Ross was a young pilot, then this Gamma Flow has been producing Hulks for a very long time. Maybe Madman was made this way? So the shocking revelation of this story is the Gamma flow of that cyclotron.

A lot of the frustration of the first 4 issues was that Way couldn't reveal the cyclotron too early or, that is was a CIA installed dictatorship harbouring some banned Gamma tech device. What Ross did was just take his team to Kata Jita on false pretenses, and now we are finally seeing what they just got themselves into. If this place gets revealed as a CIA secret base, so close to China, Korea and Japan, all those countries will be after the TBolts for being that close and using banned materials.

**scouse mouse** · 02-09-2013, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by Damage

Yeah, I thought the plan was to left Elektra being capture on purpose, so she would infiltrate the enemy fortress and begin a slaughter inside. I thought she was going to free herself of those shackles, but it seems that, in the end, Danny Way decided that she would be released by any of his teammates instead, what a shame indeed.

Yeah that does seem like a sort of plot hole. What was the point of her getting deliberately captured if she was just going to get tortured and rescued any way? Rulk obviously knew Madman was there, which is why he brought the Leader so he must have known the risk she was under. Very strange.

**TsaiMeLemoni** · 02-09-2013, 09:31 AM

^ As it stands, I think Way either doesn't want or doesn't know how to write Elektra (and it's not like it's some secret, just make her a bad-ass), and wanted her off the table. This is the best way to do it until he can get to where he can comfortably use her: stabbing people.

**shibori78** · 02-09-2013, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by TsaiMeLemoni

^ As it stands, I think Way either doesn't want or doesn't know how to write Elektra (and it's not like it's some secret, just make her a bad-ass), and wanted her off the table. This is the best way to do it until he can get to where he can comfortably use her: stabbing people.

That's unfortunate, but not surprising, if that is true. A talented writer should presumably be able to take any character they are given and rise to the challenge of doing something good with them regardless of their personal biases. Maybe we'll get to see more character development with the upcoming Punisher/Elektra romance.

**scouse mouse** · 02-10-2013, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by shibori78

That's unfortunate, but not surprising, if that is true. A talented writer should presumably be able to take any character they are given and rise to the challenge of doing something good with them regardless of their personal biases. Maybe we'll get to see more character development with the upcoming Punisher/Elektra romance.

Hopefully! Way has actually stated in interviews and said he was enjoying writing Elektra, though the Leader was his favourite. Admittedly he hasn't done anything of note with her yet. I am looking forward to the Punisher/Elektra liaison because it's something new, I just hope Way pulls it off.

**Bionder** · 02-10-2013, 11:01 AM

I have been re-reading in the last days PunisherMax (Aaron's run) with Dillon's art and i can tell that besides his art he can draw good action sequences for many panels. So i assume that the lack of action fluidity is Way's fault he is the man who builds all the action.

**scouse mouse** · 02-10-2013, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Bionder

I have been re-reading in the last days PunisherMax (Aaron's run) with Dillon's art and i can tell that besides his art he can draw good action sequences for many panels. So i assume that the lack of action fluidity is Way's fault he is the man who builds all the action.

What I have noticed is that there are lots of large, sparsely filled panels on each page. I think you are right in that Way's scripts don't really give Dillon much to work with as he seems to scripting the action 'off panel'!