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  1. #1906
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander Rogers View Post
    Hey, we're allies with Germany.
    Germany is no longer a nation devoted to the murder of anyone that get in their way, From Warbirds story the Shi'ar still are scum
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  2. #1907
    Senior Member PupsOfWar's Avatar
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    The Shi'ar Empire is your friend!

    The Shi'ar Empire loves you!

    And you love the Shi'ar Empire!

    Life for love,

    love for life,

    Each part in service of each component.

    The Empire wishes only your love! And devotion!
    Last edited by PupsOfWar; 02-16-2013 at 09:10 PM.

  3. #1908
    Junior Member Commander Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    Germany is no longer a nation devoted to the murder of anyone that get in their way, From Warbirds story the Shi'ar still are scum
    Which story is that?

  4. #1909
    Astounding Super Bird chariset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut Punch View Post
    She killed him because he was powerless outside of his own universe and she though she was doing him a favor. That's what she claimed at any rate.
    She also implied that some penalty or punishment falls on those asked to destroy a world who refuse ("the Wheel shames the weak") and by killing him, she spared him from that

  5. #1910
    Veteran Member gregyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander Rogers View Post
    Which story is that?
    The one where they killed an entire race because they liked listening to music.

    Good people, those Shi'ar.

  6. #1911
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    SA So the morality and the monstrous of the Shi'ar should be ignored becasue it is convenient, the times they have murderer people on earth should be ignored and the Avengers should be co-opted into supporting evil simply becasue it is convenient?
    For the most part I expect earth heroes to pretty much ignore what other races do on the other side of the galaxy, unless it involves earth or they have some personal reasons to get involved. Though certainly earth heroes from time to time do get involved in the business of alien races. X-Men often get involved with the Shi'ar, while Avengers often get mixed with the Kree and Skrulls.

    I don't agree that they should support acts of evil... but I'm certainly okay with them trying to get along other races if at all possible. We've seen the value of various races working together in events like Annihilation and Conquest. And we've seen the problems that conflicts like War of Kings creates. If here is a cosmic big bad out there, then the guard and Avengers being allies might actually be mutually beneficial.

  7. #1912
    Junior Member Commander Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregyo View Post
    The one where they killed an entire race because they liked listening to music.

    Good people, those Shi'ar.
    Is this the latest Astonishing X-men story? That's a title I haven't been reading.

    But from what I've seen from Gladiator lately, he was a late ally in War of Kings, a key ally in Realm of Kings and Thanos Imperative, and an Avenger ally during the bit of Magus emerging on Earth during Annihilators: Earthfall.

    I see no problem with the Avengers supporting Smasher in what they thought was defending the Shi'ar empire in the latest Avengers issue.

  8. #1913
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander Rogers View Post
    Is this the latest Astonishing X-men story? That's a title I haven't been reading.

    But from what I've seen from Gladiator lately, he was a late ally in War of Kings, a key ally in Realm of Kings and Thanos Imperative, and an Avenger ally during the bit of Magus emerging on Earth during Annihilators: Earthfall.

    I see no problem with the Avengers supporting Smasher in what they thought was defending the Shi'ar empire in the latest Avengers issue.
    Hmmm... I wonder if the Annihilators are still a team, or if they sort of disbanded by now.

    I certainly wouldn't mind another Annihilator/Avenger team up.

  9. #1914
    Veteran Member gregyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander Rogers View Post
    Is this the latest Astonishing X-men story? That's a title I haven't been reading.

    But from what I've seen from Gladiator lately, he was a late ally in War of Kings, a key ally in Realm of Kings and Thanos Imperative, and an Avenger ally during the bit of Magus emerging on Earth during Annihilators: Earthfall.

    I see no problem with the Avengers supporting Smasher in what they thought was defending the Shi'ar empire in the latest Avengers issue.
    Yeah, it's from Astonishing X-men. You're not missing much, it's a sham of a title.

  10. #1915
    Junior Member Commander Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Hmmm... I wonder if the Annihilators are still a team, or if they sort of disbanded by now.

    I certainly wouldn't mind another Annihilator/Avenger team up.
    I'm also wondering about the politics of the Shi'ar and the Kree. Did the Inhumans give up rulership of the Kree? And do the Kree still rule over the Shi'ar? And could this board have gotten more off topic?

  11. #1916
    Veteran Member Juggernaut Punch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    And who knows if she's just pacifying the Illuminati when she said that?
    How would that pacify the Illuminati? If anything, it riles them up even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by chariset View Post
    She also implied that some penalty or punishment falls on those asked to destroy a world who refuse ("the Wheel shames the weak") and by killing him, she spared him from that
    Oh yeah, that's right. His weakness could also refer to the fact that he's powerless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander Rogers View Post
    I'm also wondering about the politics of the Shi'ar and the Kree. Did the Inhumans give up rulership of the Kree? And do the Kree still rule over the Shi'ar? And could this board have gotten more off topic?
    I asked Hickman, and he says to read on.
    http://www.formspring.me/JonathanHic...49562148024456

  12. #1917
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, I asked Hickman on formspring about the Avengers helping the Imperial Guard. He said:



    "The Avengers responded to a distress call made to Smasher. Happened to be an 'invasion.'

    They did what they do."
    http://www.formspring.me/JonathanHic...paign=answered

  13. #1918
    Veteran Member Juggernaut Punch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    For what it's worth, I asked Hickman on formspring about the Avengers helping the Imperial Guard. He said:



    "The Avengers responded to a distress call made to Smasher. Happened to be an 'invasion.'

    They did what they do."
    http://www.formspring.me/JonathanHic...paign=answered
    In other words, they're not allies. They were helping out Smasher.

  14. #1919
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PupsOfWar View Post
    I think Hickman just has a more sympathetic reading of the Shi'ar - thinking either that they're more sympathetic than thirty years of X-Men comics have really represented, or thinking that they're on their way there now that Kellark is in charge - and views humans and the Shi'ar as natural allies.

    I can accept that.

    Gladiator's presence at the top of their food chain should at least raise them to "harsh, but able-to-be-reasoned-with" status, curbing the worst of their excess.
    He's a huge jerk by Earth Hero standards, but practically saintly by the standards of Shi'ar leadership.

    Shi'ar are dicks.

    But frankly every cosmic bloc are dicks.

    Kree: decadent and calloused dicks.

    Skrulls: predatory dicks.

    Shi'ar: Overtly-militant imperialist dicks.

    Badoon: dicks

    Spartoi: dicks

    etc.

    And I do think the humans have more in common with the Shi'ar than with the Kree or Skrulls, so, all other things being equal, if humanity is to align with a major intergalactic power-bloc in the future, as alluded to in Hickman's F4/FF, Shi'ar makes sense.

    I can accept that as an eventual thing down the line, but I'd like a bit more context to why Cap is acting the way he is at the beginning of it.

    Isabel seems like a nice girl, so there's probably going to be a lot of conflict down the line. At some point she'll see the Shi'ar bomb the capitol of a rebellious planet or something - well within the bounds of what Gladiator would do, despite being nicer than his predecessors - and she is not going to be able to accept it.

    So I think that will be interesting, but Cap's actions in #5 still perplex me.

    Having Smasher on his team and letting her go flying off whenever there's a Shi'ar emergency is one thing, but taking an Avengers team in support is another entirely.

    I don't know whether that will all be revisited, but I think one thing that'll definitely come up again is how Cap feels about having that Shi'ar stargate where it is.
    I think we're maybe overthinking Caps decision there.

    There was a distress call. An Avenger was going to investigate, so if there were other Avengers around at the time he had them go with her.

    I don't think he'll necessarily send the Avengers to every single Shi'ar situation that pops up. But if they just happen to be around when it goes off, and they're not doing anything, I think it's believable that he would send some Avengers to back her up.

    It's not that different than say Clint and Jessica Drew going to back up Natasha when she did her thing in Avengers Assemble. If you're on a team, and if they're around and not busy, that's somewhat the norm.

  15. #1920
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander Rogers View Post
    I'm also wondering about the politics of the Shi'ar and the Kree. Did the Inhumans give up rulership of the Kree? And do the Kree still rule over the Shi'ar? And could this board have gotten more off topic?
    It certainly looked like the Inhumans parted ways with the Kree and the Supreme Intelligence is calling the shots again.

    I think Hickman pressed the reset button on a lot of things (Wakanda and a lot of the DnA cosmic stuff) as marvel was ending their present era and moving into Marvel Now, so as to quickly wrap up a lot of lose ends and leave more of a clean stale for some of the newer stuff.

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