New Avengers #3 *Spoilers*

**Moose100** · 02-08-2013, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by SomeBodyAtCBR

Amazing. Hickman took a shoddily set up premise from Bendis (the AWFUL Illuminati "I'm only mad because I wasn't invited DERP" resolution) and made it gold. Cap doesn't belong in this group. He just doesn't get it. I'm guessing he only made it worse. Poor Cap...but there are some things that aren't straight black and white. I have a feeling the convergence of this story arc will lead into INFINITY.

All of Bendis books will converge with Hickman's books too. I wouldn't be surprised if the TIme Gem popped up over in those books..

**timeismoney** · 02-08-2013, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by SomeBodyAtCBR

Amazing. Hickman took a shoddily set up premise from Bendis (the AWFUL Illuminati "I'm only mad because I wasn't invited DERP" resolution) and made it gold. Cap doesn't belong in this group. He just doesn't get it. I'm guessing he only made it worse. Poor Cap...but there are some things that aren't straight black and white. I have a feeling the convergence of this story arc will lead into INFINITY.

Cap should be happy, because all the Illuminati do is make things worst.

But I am trying to see when this take place, because Cap is not on earth so i want to say this, take place before the events in Caps book

**pepper** · 02-08-2013, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by stussyjones

They always scew up that's why I like them. Also the infinity gaunlet should be better than any reality warper in the marvel universe.

Yes, that's why I like them, too.

**mikekerrIII** · 02-08-2013, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by stussyjones

I acuatlly don't have a problem with that one.

Even Namor was smart enough to predict the results, and that is leaving things like law and morality aside

**Victor Freeman** · 02-08-2013, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by jayflash

I think kicking out Cap will be the illuminatis first mistake. For the most part they are now left with background players. In the sense of "kings (bp, bb, namor), thinkers (reed, stark, Beast) and summoners (strange). They aren't exactly "in the trenches characters. That's why I think they were being overwhelmed in the end of issue 2. Except for Namor whose been a soldier (my opinion cause of his invaders history)

It will be interesting to see how these character act to playing the soldier role.

Both Black Bolt and Black Panther have fought in wars as well, on the frontline--in the trenches. So I don't see that as a problem.

**doctormistermaster** · 02-08-2013, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Victor Freeman

Both Black Bolt and Black Panther have fought in wars as well, on the frontline--in the trenches. So I don't see that as a problem.

I know it has been retconned but didn't Reed [and Ben] serve in Korea?

**jayflash** · 02-08-2013, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Victor Freeman

Both Black Bolt and Black Panther have fought in wars as well, on EUthe frontline--in the trenches. So I don't see that as a problem.

Which ones? (not being sarcastic, just curious)

**jayflash** · 02-08-2013, 09:04 PM

Reed and Ben were both in Korea, from what I recall, I think Ben still has some type of military background, but i think reeds was wiped away,. I could be wrong tho

**Victor Freeman** · 02-08-2013, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by jayflash

Which ones? (not being sarcastic, just curious)

Black Bolt fought in a Intergalactic War Against the Shi'ar empire. He "died" in a war. I don't see this being a issue.

Black Panther is a king that was trained from birth to be a warrior--sort of like King Leonidas. He's a warrior--see how he ripped Black Swan's Reavers apart like they were rag dolls. He slaughtered the Skrulls and sent a the invading flag ship back to it's throne world--with their corpses in a pile. Besides this--he has 10,000 years of experience, skills and knowledge imbued in him.

So along with Namor--the Kings, are all warriors who can mix it up.

**PupsOfWar** · 02-08-2013, 09:20 PM

The Inhumans get into a lot of trouble, so Blackagar is pretty experienced with the whole warrin' business. Most recently:

There was that time the Inhumans invaded the Earth.

There was also that time the Inhumans ran the Kree Empire and got into a war with the Shi'ar and others - warfare on an intergalactic scale.

And Blackagar commanded Attilan into battle against the Kree armada not long ago, in Hickman's F4/FF stuff. The Inhumans were pretty intimately tied into those shenanigans.
Although I can't find the images of their participation.

So yeah, Black Bolt has done his share of warring, even in just the past decade. Probably more open warfare than Cap has seen, frankly.

Meanwhile, T'Challa, Reed, Namor, Strange, Beast and Tony all have around as much heroing experience as Steve does.

Maybe more in some cases.
Namor fought in World War 2 without missing half of it on account of getting frozen, after all.
He and Cap are ol' War Buddies.

So while Steve, in his leadership capacity among the Earth heroes, is considered to have maybe the greatest tactical acumen and to be an inspirational combat leader, let's not pretend the others are pikers. They've all fought enough of skyscraper-sized robots, gun-bristling space dreadnoughts, imperialistic (or merely carnivorous) alien hordes and cosmic superbeings to meet anyone's standards of combat veterancy.

I think those ominous panels were not meant to indicate that the Illuminati missed Steve's prowess in battle nearly so much as they were meant to indicate that this is really serious stuff no matter who you have.

You think your Universe is safe because it has the Squadron Supreme? Well, it turns out that a Namor can just come along from an onrushing Earth and murder them all with his trident.

You think your Universe is safe because it has the Illuminati? Well, it turns out that weird floating mask-things or unending hordes of dire-wraith knockoffs can come along and ruin their shit entirely.

etc.

**Victor Freeman** · 02-08-2013, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by doctormistermaster

I know it has been retconned but didn't Reed [and Ben] serve in Korea?

I think the did--but Reed has face down Galactus and Celestials--recently. So I mean that's on par with anything. He was also a part of Doomwar. So he's good as well.

**jayflash** · 02-08-2013, 09:37 PM

I don't mean as heroes or warriors, i mean soldiers. front line people.

Black bolts power level and status as king makes him a background nuclear bomb option. Even in realm of kings he was like the third most powerful. Heck he even took out gladiator.
Bp has the knowledge but not really the experience. And his country which has been defeated a total of two times were both on his watch.
they are all leaders but no soldiers

**chariset** · 02-08-2013, 09:39 PM

Doctor Strange was involved in a war alongside the Vishanti (the War of the Seven Spheres) which was conducted in some other dimension and lasted 5,000 years, but the details are vague and I think most writers have quietly ignored it

**PupsOfWar** · 02-08-2013, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by jayflash

I don't mean as heroes or warriors, i mean soldiers. front line people.

Black bolts power level and status as king makes him a background nuclear bomb option. Even in realm of kings he was like the third most powerful. Heck he even took out gladiator.
Bp has the knowledge but not really the experience. And his country which has been defeated a total of two times were both on his watch.
they are all leaders but no soldiers

All of the guys have experience getting their hands dirty.
Most of them have literally killed people with their hands, at that.

I don't see what dog-soldier role you're requiring to be filled, or why, whatever it is, people like Bolt and Namor aren't qualified to cover it in addition to their other roles just because they are powerful.

You can apply the "He's a Leader/Hero, not a foot soldier" thing to Cap if you can apply it to any of them.

**jackolover** · 02-08-2013, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by chariset

Reed, Tony, and T'Challa were making the incursion warning system and the little signal devices, and Strange was helping Reed put them into everyone's hands. Strange and Tony left to get their gems, and then Cap, Namor, and Black Bolt got Beast and brought him up to speed. Reed chatted a bit more with the Black Swan. And they probably had everyday stuff they needed to look after.

I'm sure all of them were turning over ideas in their minds about a Plan B if the Infinity Gauntlet didn't work, but then none of them expected it to be completely destroyed. This thing is the ultimate weapon. It could solve any other problem for them.

(That, and I think they were hoping it would work so they wouldn't have to resort to violent options)

The thing that intrigues me is that immediately after NA #3 and the delaying of the Incursion, Reeds arm started to degrade, (and he went to the Big Bang) and the Beast started feeling unwell, (and he went to the past to get the 05, and he changed into Ape Beast). Is this related to the Illuminati or the hand devices?