View Poll Results: Was Rick Remender's Uncanny X-Force any good?

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  • Yes it was Greatlocke

    75 59.52%
  • No it was a Fantomess

    14 11.11%
  • It was okverine

    25 19.84%
  • Needed more Jean Grey

    12 9.52%
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  1. #121
    Psylocke's Pal Tazirai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wader0069 View Post
    Except, it was tons better.........

    Also, Psylocke won't be going back to her Caucasian aesthetics anytime soon. They have teased at such an event for quite sometime, and it never fell through. It never will, her popularity came from her Asian form. Changing her to a white woman would be confusing and plain stupid at this point.

    Also, if you nitpick anything you can find a flaw in it. So what, a white woman's soul is in a Japanese woman's body. Maybe it's only racist because you're racist. I certainly don't see the big deal, and I've heard of far stranger and convoluted and offensive things. Yet it's art, so everything deserves its existence.....
    As I said Confusing to those who refuse to use the mighty power of their own brains and wikipedia. But it's okay to disagree. AND she was famous before she turned asian, she just got more famous along with the rest of the X-men during Jim Lee, and the animated era, it also helped to run around in nothing for a few years so :P lol
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  2. #122
    Psylocke's Pal Tazirai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Mutie View Post
    I'm not sure how you can dispute Psylocke doing yellowface if you have a rudimentary knowledge of the character.



    Even without the historical context, Dark Phoenix Saga is much better than Dark Angel Saga.
    I still love both.. they should have all the X-men have a dark saga lol. Storm would just win, Iceman would just win. An Elemental mutant would just win lol. It can be said that Telepathic mutants would also, they'd just shut everyone's Brains off.
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  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazirai View Post
    I don't think you understand what Yellow Face means. For instance Keanu Reaves is working on Bringing EXTREMELY Japanese Akira to American movie theatres. I was okay with that until I learned it wasn't taking place in Neo-Tokyo, and all the main characters were white. Kanada is Keanu.. That's white washing. Which is HORRIBLE! They did the same thing to the Last Airbender.

    When Marvel wanted a sexy Asian woman ninja for the comics, they literally had TONS to choose from. You know what Psylocke pre-asian suffered from? She was a Telepath, There were issues of the X-men where Psylocke literally took on near whole teams by herself, using her brain, so they had to tone it down. Claremont even complained about it a few times in regards to other Mentats. What they could have done is use Karma an existing Asian Mentat with Martial arts skills AND a shady past. They took a white British Woman and gave her an asian body. Then left her there. Took away her coolness as superb team player, support player, and burgeoning skills as X-men Team Leader, and stuck her in a damn thong for 20 years.
    Then they Used her for Spank monkey crap 90's bad girl stupidity where all she did was pose and MISS with her elite ninja skills. They could have fixed it with the Kwannon thing, they screwed that up also.. stupid nicienza. He even said it was one of his regrets in not changing her back. Then writers started moving past the badgirl phase and didnt know what to do with Psylocke so they almost kill her and give her a silly mark over her eye, because she had that damn Telepathy thing going on again. Then she ACTUALLY gets killed.. and they miss another opportunity.. Then they banished her to a book that served no purpose.
    They could have brought her back without even acknowledging the switch again. It could have been a simple one panel scene with her and Brian.. "Betsy We're twins again!"
    People that cry it would confuse them to change her back must not have strong minds or reading comprehension skills.Wikipedia, Marvel-pedia, Psylocke fan sites would fill them in.
    Remender and carey finally understood Psylocke and did great things with her. Except get her out of that damn thong.

    As a Psylocke Fan Remenders greatest Accomplishment was making it okay for her to get out of the damn thong. Then it stuck.. fans got upset because they missed their favorite ass-locke, then they got over it. Same as many of her Brit-body fans got over it.
    They have her in an even BETTER costume, and thong fans still think she's better in the thong. They are getting over it, testament to the power of Deviant art.

    Remender turned her from fap material who did impossible poses to fap material with actual clothing and characterization. He almost killed it with Emo-locke though. Now she's front billing without the thong. Since UXF is a noir style book. They can explore her even better back story as a model, spy, Left over stuff with the warpies, etc.

    Yellow face is Psylocke. Give her her body back, keep the skills, and power gains, bring back kwannon, add her to UXF, then keep it moving. Asian Psylocke fans never seem concerned that she doesn't resemble her twin caucasian brother.. like not at all. It's many of those things we want back, But most will settle for her being out of the thong.
    I already addressed everything you said in my last post (with the exception of her being over sexualized. That in itself is another topic). I'm sorry that you disagree with it.

    Just to give a run down, I don't agree with your definition of yellow face. My definition is akin to black face in which someone would literal paint their face black to portray themselves as a black person. Psylock is in the body of an Asian woman. We don't have examples of that in our modern society. On any census form she would check off Asian. If the police or any law enforcement agency were to engage her, they would not be referring to her as a white woman. We aren't going to agree there so it's pointless to retread that.

    Last thing is that you seem completely unfazed by the emotional argument. You seem completely unfazed that a large portion of Betsy's fanbase came in from the last 2 decades of her existence. I would argue that most of the comic book readers today came in during that time period. You seem unfazed knowing that there are people out there her identify with her because of her race. All you care about is having your white girl back.

    I understand all of your arguments and in another time period I would agree with you. Unfortunately we are over 2 decades removed from it. The correct answer isn't to do a forced event that would upset/confuse a significantly large chunk of people. The correct answer isn't to force some sort of conflict on her that doesn't even exist. Again, she has embraced her new identity.

    You know what the answer is? The answer is to make her a stronger character. The answer is to evolve her attitude and give her good stories. That is the best answer. Not further muddy and confuse her background with some event that will probably piss off tons of fans and send her into comic book limbo.

    I honestly can't tell what your motivation is. I don't know if you're a hardcore Psylocke fan that was hurt by Marvel's decision decades ago or just find it more appealing to stare at another blonde haired white girl rather then an asain one. I don't know, and honestly it wouldn't matter if Marvel went through with this. The amount of upset fans, calls of racism, and controversy would be off the charts not only on this board but on Marvel's as well. I wouldn't want to be apart of Marvel's PR team for that mess. It's not worth it man. It's really not.
    Last edited by Voss; 02-07-2013 at 08:20 PM.

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Home made ectoplasm View Post
    Hahahahahaaha

    No.

    I second this.. Really ??? who would think they're even close!!!

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home made ectoplasm View Post
    Hahahahahaaha

    No.
    Now, now, HME, let them have their "generation's Dark Phoenix Saga." They never specified the quality of the Dark Angel Saga, only suggesting a comparison that is was "their generation's DPS."

  6. #126
    Rise of Dex-Tarr Raptor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fod_xp View Post
    How so? Their run was all gorn, meaningless violence, and hyper-sexualized female exploitation. I am really interested in why you say it "was some of the best stuff...[you]...ever read in a comic."
    So...what was the bad part again?

    EDIT:

    No, really: I liked to see Warpath and Domino use in a book.

    They stopped a few seriously screwed up people from killing a whole lot of mutants. I felt Yost characterized most of if not all of the characters accurately. Angel actually developed into something interesting.

    There was decent plot.

    I'm fairly certain I'm not the only person who liked it. Honestly, sorry that you did not.
    Last edited by Raptor; 02-07-2013 at 10:10 PM.
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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
    So...what was the bad part again?

    EDIT:

    No, really: I liked to see Warpath and Domino use in a book.

    They stopped a few seriously screwed up people from killing a whole lot of mutants. I felt Yost characterized most of if not all of the characters accurately. Angel actually developed into something interesting.

    There was decent plot.

    I'm fairly certain I'm not the only person who liked it. Honestly, sorry that you did not.
    okay, thanks for telling me. I was curious because most people cite their favorite parts were the violence and gore. Again, thanks for telling me.

  8. #128
    Hard-Headed Ingonyama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I already addressed everything you said in my last post (with the exception of her being over sexualized. That in itself is another topic). I'm sorry that you disagree with it.

    Just to give a run down, I don't agree with your definition of yellow face. My definition is akin to black face in which someone would literal paint their face black to portray themselves as a black person. Psylock is in the body of an Asian woman. We don't have examples of that in our modern society. On any census form she would check off Asian. If the police or any law enforcement agency were to engage her, they would not be referring to her as a white woman. We aren't going to agree there so it's pointless to retread that.

    Last thing is that you seem completely unfazed by the emotional argument. You seem completely unfazed that a large portion of Betsy's fanbase came in from the last 2 decades of her existence. I would argue that most of the comic book readers today came in during that time period. You seem unfazed knowing that there are people out there her identify with her because of her race. All you care about is having your white girl back.

    I understand all of your arguments and in another time period I would agree with you. Unfortunately we are over 2 decades removed from it. The correct answer isn't to do a forced event that would upset/confuse a significantly large chunk of people. The correct answer isn't to force some sort of conflict on her that doesn't even exist. Again, she has embraced her new identity.

    You know what the answer is? The answer is to make her a stronger character. The answer is to evolve her attitude and give her good stories. That is the best answer. Not further muddy and confuse her background with some event that will probably piss off tons of fans and send her into comic book limbo.

    I honestly can't tell what your motivation is. I don't know if you're a hardcore Psylocke fan that was hurt by Marvel's decision decades ago or just find it more appealing to stare at another blonde haired white girl rather then an asain one. I don't know, and honestly it wouldn't matter if Marvel went through with this. The amount of upset fans, calls of racism, and controversy would be off the charts not only on this board but on Marvel's as well. I wouldn't want to be apart of Marvel's PR team for that mess. It's not worth it man. It's really not.
    All of this is the reason I prefer Asian Psylocke. Whatever else she is now, she's unique and has her own identity, standing out among her peers in a way Caucasian Psylocke wouldn't today. She has skill, power, history, and recognizability; she's been Asian longer now than she was white. Undoing that at this point would do more harm than good to her character.
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  9. #129
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    I'd like her skin color to be something that matches her angry disposition.

    Gun-owner Red, perhaps.

    And then change her codename to Mood Ring.

  10. #130
    ButterRum, not Butter Rum ButterRum's Avatar
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    Because it was well-paced and continuous -- something that most Marvel comics unfortunately lack these days. Other than that, UXF wasn't that great. So any well-paced book these days is going to be considered "great" by most readers.

    lol Asian Pyslocke's character development would have been so much better if they provided introspection on how she felt different in society as an Asian compared to a white person. Then again racism in the MU seems to be glossed over when you have "bigger" things such as mutant rights as an allegory (and white people writing it), unfortunately.
    Last edited by ButterRum; 02-07-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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  11. #131
    Veteran Member The_Greatest_Username's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fod_xp View Post
    okay, thanks for telling me. I was curious because most people cite their favorite parts were the violence and gore. Again, thanks for telling me.
    My favorite part was Rahne eating her dad.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Mutie View Post
    I feel like the people who felt it had good emotional resonance, other than the predicament with the kid in the beginning and maybe the would-be lives of Archangel and Psylocke when Warren dies, are emotionally young (not a slight) and/or the type that get choked-up during an Evanescence song (I guess not a slight?).
    I feel like that about people who find Pak's X-Treme funny and amusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Mutie View Post
    The "emotional" beats were so heavy-handed and shallow, like a teenager's break-up poetry. ...........
    By the way, as someone who is not a Psylocke fan and has no dog in that fight: The series made her a mess. Don't mistake chaos for depth.
    I agree it was nothing compared to Claremont, but it also provided more story-wise, than any writer has done in the franchise for awhile now, unless you just happen to be obsessed with Cyclops, Wolverine or Storm. Remender actually attempted to tell stories, bring points up from the past (whether well done or not) and use team dynamics. Not everyone blindly followed the focus character. The voices were unique. Again, compared to Claremont it was a modest effort, but still, who else has bothered trying?

    I'm not really a Psylocke fan either, but Remender made her readable for me. He overdid the crying nonsense, and apparently felt the best way to develop her was through lovers, but he at least got her beyond wank material. She's been stuck in that for 20 years.

  13. #133
    BANNED wader0069's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Mutie View Post
    I'm not sure how you can dispute Psylocke doing yellowface if you have a rudimentary knowledge of the character.



    Even without the historical context, Dark Phoenix Saga is much better than Dark Angel Saga.
    Easy, her soul is in a different body. How many times have body swaps existed in storytelling?

    I bet quite a bit, but soon as they change their aesthetics to a different race of people, you cry racist yellow face. Seems those crying yellow face are the racists, it's like you're saying "we don't take kindly to your kind 'round here".

    Also the Dark Phoenix Saga pales in comparison to the the Dark Angel Saga, and since its an OPINION feel free to debate it.......

  14. #134
    C'est kinky Seresecros's Avatar
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    The only reason Marvel is still in her magically-created Asian body is because no Asian writer has been allowed to write her. There was recent discussion about her on twitter between a group of prominent Asian creators, and they all agreed she was hateful. It's why Marjorie Liu makes fun of the character whenever she uses her.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazirai View Post
    As I said Confusing to those who refuse to use the mighty power of their own brains and wikipedia. But it's okay to disagree. AND she was famous before she turned asian, she just got more famous along with the rest of the X-men during Jim Lee, and the animated era, it also helped to run around in nothing for a few years so :P lol
    No, it would be confusing and stupid to someone like me as well. I am quite aware of Betsy's days before her Hand swap. However, at this point, with all she has been through. With having it tempted and her accepting and CHOOSING this body. It would be a definitive step back. What, are they going to tell the same stories in new ways? Will we have her dealing with yet another body swap? And don't even mention the bait you're literally handing the Psylocke haters..... It's recycling old story lines, that others told better or should never be brought up again.

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