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  1. #91
    Hey, Larry! Darrell D.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tar22 View Post
    I totally get this perspective, but just because it's intentionally super-decompressed and boring with stupid dialogue doesn't mean that it is enjoyable or smart. His other Batman stories were attempting sharp satire; "All Star" was sloppy parody.

    It's like Dr. Strangelove or Blazing Saddles compared to Epic Movie. The former two have structure and form; they are smartly constructed in order to say something, and exist as good stories independently of the things they are satirizing. The latter is just showing a bunch of random stuff and saying "Look! This is all the stuff you see in big blockbuster movies! Am I right?!"

    If ASBAR is truly meant as a parody or satire as fans claim, that's fine; I just don't feel it has any inherent value beyond the Epic Movie style of storytelling by saying "Hey, look at how decompressed the story is! Naughty language! Ridiculous violence! Totally over the top cynical/dark/gritty characterization! This is totally what the current climate of superhero comics is like, am I right?!"
    I think the over-the-top works completely for the book. It takes these archetypes and amps them up to 11...Wonder Woman being a man hater, Green Lantern this boy scout, Superman the authority figure, Canary, the sexy face kicker...
    It's Miller's version of the DC heroes, and it works within the story he is telling. Even Jim Lee loosens up with his art on the book, and I say this as someone who has never been a fan of his art.
    It's the Adam West Batman, if the Adam West Batman was a crazy face puncher.
    It's fun.

  2. #92
    Senior Member WhitOro's Avatar
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    I love Planetary, but sadly I only read the first half, the second part of the Absolute edition is still out of my reach for translation reasons. I had to buy the first one in italian, for the sake of consistency I'll take the second one like that too.

    I just love stories about fiction. The issue dedicated tot Grant Morrison was my favourite by far. Been a while since I read it, but was pretty much about a group of scientists extracting a character from a fictional world and he turns out to be pure evil because pure evil is fiction or something like this? God, need to re-read it, I'm sure I'm screwing it up.

    These are the kind of stories that make me squee like a total fanboy, I just love metafiction that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell D. View Post
    I think the over-the-top works completely for the book. It takes these archetypes and amps them up to 11...Wonder Woman being a man hater, Green Lantern this boy scout, Superman the authority figure, Canary, the sexy face kicker...
    It's Miller's version of the DC heroes, and it works within the story he is telling. Even Jim Lee loosens up with his art on the book, and I say this as someone who has never been a fan of his art.
    It's the Adam West Batman, if the Adam West Batman was a crazy face puncher.
    It's fun.
    Thumbs up, 5 out of 5, 10/10.
    Last edited by WhitOro; 02-14-2013 at 07:59 AM.

  3. #93
    Elder Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaad View Post
    My last comment on this thread is this:

    Planetary was a clever, beautiful book, at times heart wrenching, with something to say about comics, and about pop culture in general. All comics should strive to be this good.

    But I can read through Planetary in an afternoon. I'm not CHALLENGED by Planetary. It doesn't give me insight - real insight - into the human condition, it doesn't force me to consider or reconsider my understanding of violence, or sex, or morality, or existence. It doesn't surprise me each and every time I read it with new elements, new layers. It doesn't tickle my creative drive, it doesn't instill in me a hunger to learn more about any of the elements therein.

    It's an easy book. That doesn't make it better, or worse, necessarily, but for me it makes it less engaging than something like Watchmen, or Engima, or Morrison's Doom Patrol or Invisibles or Flex.
    Great points. I really enjoyed Planetary, but I have to admit that it isn't a great comic, just a very good one. There are some interesting ideas in Planetary, but none of them are especially deep.
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
    Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail, April 16, 1963

  4. #94
    Junior Member Captain Midnight's Avatar
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    No Watchmen was overrated Planetary is awesome!!!!!!!
    The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is more frightening, nobody is in control. The world is rudderless.
    Bring Back MI:13 & Marvel UK permanently

  5. #95
    living on the dolmantle eye of all's Avatar
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    I just finished my first reading of the series and I can't think of any way that it could be considered overrated. As someone who generally agrees with Ellis's view of the superhero genre, it was really one of the great comics experiences I've ever had. His take on F4 in this and Ruins sums up so much of what I like in his approach to comics. I wouldn't class it with Watchmen, but it's probably my favorite superhero book since. Can't wait to reread it in the omnibus.

  6. #96
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    I understand his argument, but I think Mr. Holmes might be more into Warren Ellis' two novels: Crooked Little Vein and Gun Machine, especially with a username such as Mr. Holmes and location of "221B Baker Street."

    Those are straight up detective novels written by Warren Ellis, and definitely include his offbeat, out there quirks. As for myself, Warren Ellis is my favorite comic book writer, and as the entire X-Books boards will attest to, I can't STFU about him. I even bought a ton of his creator owned works from Avatar Press.

  7. #97
    New Member Meta4's Avatar
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    Personally, I LOVED planetary. Litterally my favorite series after sandman. It may not be for everyone, but for me, it hit that special spot that only really out there fiction can get me to. It was a story about stories, the power of fiction, and an homage to the archetypes that built the medium of comics throughout its history. There are references all over the board, from godzilla, sherlock holmes, and john woo kung fu movies, to green lantern, superman, and the fantastic four. I took it to be ellis's satement on the power of fiction itself, the ability to believe in the impossible. It brought me a sense of wonder that I hadn't felt since reading chris claremonts x men as a kid. Litterally anything was possible and it all tied together into a larger and very strange picture. Its certainly metafiction, but told through the vehicle of fiction itself. At the time, comics were stagnant and repetative, with every writer and artist seeming to follow the same formula. Planetary was a celebration of every piece of fiction that touched warren ellis's heart and made him believe in something greater, larger than ourselves and our mundane lives. He takes a charector (elija snow) from sitting in a dive diner in the middle of nowhere to leading a secret organization uncovering the secret history of the world, making him realize in the process that this earth is a unique, strange, and beautiful place. Its a strange world, lets keep it that way.

  8. #98
    New Member Meta4's Avatar
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    Also, the funeral issue of jack carter (john constantine) was particularly poiniant at the time. Ellis had just left hellblazer over the censorship of his school shooting issue "shoot", and had shifted his focus to transmetropolitan. Having john constantine recreate himself as spider jerusalem was a particularly potent statement on where warren was coming from. He was transitioning into the work that spoke to him the most, what he enjoyed writing, not neccesarily what "the people" wanted. But years later, I appreciate it even more than I did back them. He took a chance, and in my mind, succeeded soaringly.

  9. #99
    New Member Sewersaint's Avatar
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    In response to the OP I'd have to say no, Planetary is not overrated. I think the general consensus is that's it's somewhere between pretty good and really good. There are people who enjoyed this more than others for whatever reason but it seems they all concede that that might be due to personal preference.

    I don't see how people's praise of Planetary should effect your enjoyment of it as I don't perceive the hype surrounding it to be all that great. I understand how people running around saying "THIS IS THE GREATEST THING EVER!!!" or "THIS IS MUST READ STUFF!!!!" can diminish your enjoyment but I'm not aware of that level of hype surrounding Planetary. I think Planetary can even be a little forgotten compared to the much more referenced Authority.

  10. #100
    New Member Meta4's Avatar
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    That is certainly true, planetary is not nearly as hyped or praised as ellis's authority run. But personally, I thought the authority was way overhyped. It just seemed like widescreen comics that depended on shock value to me. I loved planetary, and ellis's stormwatch run. In my mind, these are comics where the hero's set out to change the world for the better. Once I got around to reading the authority, I bought the absolute editions thinking that I loved his other work so much that authority would surely be my flavor. Sadly, it didnt really do it for me. I get the whole "absolute power corrups absolutely" theme, but to me, ellis had already covered all this ground in his stormwatch run, and did a much better job of it as well. Its all opinion, but I thought both planetary and ellis's stormwatch were some of my favorite series, wasn't really impressed with the authority. But clearly, theres a lot of people who disagree with me.

  11. #101
    Senior Member Deep_Sleeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meta4 View Post
    That is certainly true, planetary is not nearly as hyped or praised as ellis's authority run. But personally, I thought the authority was way overhyped. It just seemed like widescreen comics that depended on shock value to me.
    I disagree with the statement that Authority was over-hyped. I think what made Authority such an acclaimed piece of work is that it really did change the way comics were being done. Gone were the days of being really close to the action. Hitch pulled the camera back so far that it made the scope of things really noticeable. It really wasn't being done in comics. The comics just operated on a grander scale. Everything about it was big. I imagine Authority being to superhero comics to what the Lord of the Rings movies did for epic fantasy movies.
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  12. #102
    Junior Member JSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell D. View Post
    I agree, the book is nothing like Watchmen; Ellis is his own writer and has his own voice and doesn't NEED to create a Watchmen type book. He is, for me, right behind Moore in terms of writing, though. He writes for himself, and is always thinking of new ways to get a story across. Which is what the medium needs.
    In some way, Planetary is a Love letter to Moore's Creativity
    Last edited by JSA; 08-20-2013 at 12:57 PM.

  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meta4 View Post
    Personally, I LOVED planetary. Litterally my favorite series after sandman. It may not be for everyone, but for me, it hit that special spot that only really out there fiction can get me to. It was a story about stories, the power of fiction, and an homage to the archetypes that built the medium of comics throughout its history. There are references all over the board, from godzilla, sherlock holmes, and john woo kung fu movies, to green lantern, superman, and the fantastic four. I took it to be ellis's satement on the power of fiction itself, the ability to believe in the impossible. It brought me a sense of wonder that I hadn't felt since reading chris claremonts x men as a kid. Litterally anything was possible and it all tied together into a larger and very strange picture. Its certainly metafiction, but told through the vehicle of fiction itself. At the time, comics were stagnant and repetative, with every writer and artist seeming to follow the same formula. Planetary was a celebration of every piece of fiction that touched warren ellis's heart and made him believe in something greater, larger than ourselves and our mundane lives. He takes a charector (elija snow) from sitting in a dive diner in the middle of nowhere to leading a secret organization uncovering the secret history of the world, making him realize in the process that this earth is a unique, strange, and beautiful place. Its a strange world, lets keep it that way.
    If these are small ideas, I wonder what big ones are....

  14. #104
    Senior Member Trey's Avatar
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    oh god yes.
    "Calm down, call Batman." - Greg Capullo

  15. #105
    trevordraws.com Tar22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Midnight View Post
    No Watchmen was overrated Planetary is awesome!!!!!!!
    Your argument's reasoning is impeccable.
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