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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    How do you see it as reasonable?
    Well, the place of a god in the world is generally considered different from the place of a human (even an Amazon, I presume). If I suddenly found out that I was the son of Zeus, I guess I'd wonder if that meant I should be conducting myself differently if some way--especially if I lost my entire family (and, in effect, my nation) at almost the same time. That would be confusing and might influence the way I saw myself. Think of issue 5, when she identifies with how Lennox had to discover who he was and what he needed to do even as he found out who he wasn't. She sees beauty in this, bit that doesn't mean it's an easy thing to figure out or do. And even though she carries herself with confidence in her own title, she has moments, like the end of #7, when she shows the wear and tear of all the changes and confusion she has been through.
    Last edited by slvn; 02-04-2013 at 06:24 PM.

  2. #47
    The Mad Artist RMAN63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    You said he couldn't have made it clearer. I'm just saying it could have been clearer with simple active voice. It could still have been "flowery": "they drained the lives from them." Then we might wonder how they killed them, but it would be clear that they did the actual killing. Or "they slid their cold steel deep into the mens' beating hearts," or whatever.



    I remember it well. And in the next panel, we see the bodies dumped overboard. The actual killings--the swords not just drawn and pointed, but drawing blood--are conspicuously omitted. Does this mean they didn't kill? No. Could it be more certain that they killed if it were actually shown on the page? Of course.



    I don't think that's a very good analogy. Would you kill the guards rather than leaving them tied up and being sure to cover your tracks?

    Sorry, now "I" wasn't clear! That analogy was actually meant for Azzarello. Meaning, if you're going to rob the Amazons of their dignified past (let's ignore A.Attack) then let's do it BIG. None of this "Oh yes.. they killed the men but they were being mind controlled".

    To be perfectly honest, IF (big IF) there is a way to do it plausibly and without coming off like a drama-queen on Azzarello's part, I WISH you would be right. I would rather he never went there to begin with, but he did. I'd say the only major player that hasn't been shown is Athena. She was even absent at the pool party after being invited. If he could somehow spin a great story around Athena being responsible and WHY.. well then, let him. It just better be good if it is.

    As it stands right now, sending their sons away is a rather weak issue to repent. Heph is taking good care of them and they want to be there. Additionally I will say, that i highly suspect that there was more to it than that before hephaestus showed up with his bartering ideas. I think they were killing them.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_Olivera View Post
    Sorry, now "I" wasn't clear! That analogy was actually meant for Azzarello. Meaning, if you're going to rob the Amazons of their dignified past (let's ignore A.Attack) then let's do it BIG. None of this "Oh yes.. they killed the men but they were being mind controlled".
    Sounds like you want it either black or white. Azzarello, to me, seems more interested in shades of gray. Or in many colorrs. But not just the dull, simplistic binary of "dignified past" vs. "gleeful killers." I think flat-out, complete mind control would probably be a cop out, but allowing themselves to be persuaded by their gods would introduce moral complexity, which can make a story more interesting.
    Last edited by slvn; 02-04-2013 at 06:18 PM.

  4. #49
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    I like the way Diana is drawn, but I'll wait for Diggle to begin his proper Action run.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    Sounds like you want it either black or white. Azzarello, to me, seems more interested in shades of gray. Or in many colorrs. But not just the dull, simplistic binary of "dignified past" vs. "gleeful killers." I think flat-out, complete mind control would probably be a cop out, but allowing themselves to be persuaded by their gods would introduce moral complexity, which can make a story more interesting.
    Do you think they allowed themselves to be persuaded by their gods to mistrust and repeal their own princess as well?


  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman Priime View Post
    You don't read Justice League, do you? He hasn't saved the day there in a while. Hell, he hasn't saved the day in any of DC's recent events, with the possible exception of Final Crisis But don't let that deter your Superman envy.
    He did save the world from the Multitude, which destroyed 298 other worlds, and he and his father were the only ones to ever repel it. And in the first arc of Justice League, he was instrumental in defeating Darkseid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    What troubles me about that scene (besides the silly looking breasts) is the whole 'I still don't fit in' business.

    This is where I think Azzarello's Diana diverges so dramatically from Geoff Johns. Diana in her own book is confident, eats out, goes to clubs, has an apartment and doesn't seem to have any issues at all with adapting to the world. It's been five years and she seems to be doing fine with adapting. It's the family issues that provide the storyline/drama (as seen in the Heph/Diana panels above)

    Yet over in JL/Superman/Romance she's still this long lost outsider which just doesn't jibe with her own book.

    Drives me a little crazy ;)
    I guess you could say that she doesn't know how to fit in as someone other than "Wonder Woman." In her on-going, she is just wearing other clothes over her suit, leaving stuff like the choker and very distinct bracelets in plain view. Now she's just trying to blend in as a "normal" woman to be with the man she's with doing the same.

  7. #52
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    Well on the plus side, at least the Sirens didnt tell her her 'current lovers heart' would be lost to her.

    And yes, I also though Diana's proportions seemed off in the pic where she is sitting front on. It was like her head was to small for the rest of her.

    May I also add I hate the new Wonder logo. At first I was wondering why the page with the S shield didnt have Wonder Woman's icon on it. Damn thing looks like somebody tried to make a bat logo out of wrapping foil and botched it.
    Last edited by brettc1; 02-04-2013 at 11:58 PM.
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    What troubles me about that scene (besides the silly looking breasts) is the whole 'I still don't fit in' business.

    This is where I think Azzarello's Diana diverges so dramatically from Geoff Johns. Diana in her own book is confident, eats out, goes to clubs, has an apartment and doesn't seem to have any issues at all with adapting to the world. It's been five years and she seems to be doing fine with adapting. It's the family issues that provide the storyline/drama (as seen in the Heph/Diana panels above)

    Yet over in JL/Superman/Romance she's still this long lost outsider which just doesn't jibe with her own book.

    Drives me a little crazy ;)
    Now come on Gael, she has to be socially awkward so Clark can educate her.
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  9. #54
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    Apollo and Midnighter are getting a "young romance" story! That's cool.

    As for Wonder Woman, while it's good to see WW and her supporting characters and mythology/history used in books outside her own title, some of the dialogue seems off, her proportions seem obviously off and her characterisation is at odds with that in her own title. All of which is why I'm just sticking to her own title.

  10. #55
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    Having a closer look at it, I notice Clark is dressed in his regular clothes, while Diana is decked out like she should be sandwiching a pole between her breasts. Either that or she is on her way to film a Spring Break video.

    Small surprise the matching thread over on the Superboards seems to have a number of posts with guys basically high-fiving each other about how their hero is going to "hit that".

    Man, this sucks.
    Last edited by brettc1; 02-05-2013 at 01:13 AM.
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  11. #56

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    i want to read apollo and midnighter <3
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  12. #57
    Veteran Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Its always been an oddity to me that, by its very design, Wonder Woman's costume shows off her breasts a lot so she's always got mega-cleavage, yet when she wears street clothes with a revealing top, there's a problem.

    And I don't think its really fair to paint the thread in the Superman forum as a bunch of prepubescents salivating. Yes there's been a couple harmless jokes, but for the most part there's just as much legitimate conversation about the preview there as here.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 02-05-2013 at 01:27 AM.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Its always been an oddity to me that, by its very design, Wonder Woman's costume shows off her breasts a lot so she's always got mega-cleavage, yet when she wears street clothes with a revealing top, there's a problem.

    And I don't think its really fair to paint the thread in the Superman forum as a bunch of prepubescents salivating. Yes there's been a couple harmless jokes, but for the most part there's just as much legitimate conversation about the preview there as here.
    I think if you look objectively you will see an obvious difference between Wonder Woman's costume and Power Girl's. Whereas the top she is wearing to dinner with Clark looks like one of PG's cast-offs.

    Edit - I guess I should add the caveat of when she is drawn in her own book. The depiction in Superman #16 is a wet dream version of her standard costume.
    Last edited by brettc1; 02-05-2013 at 02:10 AM.
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  14. #59
    Needs more lesbian RandomFalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnghtJared View Post
    I guess you could say that she doesn't know how to fit in as someone other than "Wonder Woman." In her on-going, she is just wearing other clothes over her suit, leaving stuff like the choker and very distinct bracelets in plain view. Now she's just trying to blend in as a "normal" woman to be with the man she's with doing the same.
    Keeping her accessories with her when she's in the club makes sense fashion wise (she is in a metal club after all and metal bracelets will fit right in) and is just plain common sense when Strife is right there and might pose a threat to Zola at any time. In the morning when she has breakfast at the cafe she wears a dress that hides her outfit and a scarf to hide her choker. I don;t really see a differenc ebetween this and when Superman hides his costume beneath his suit. She then spends an entire day wandering around London with Zola, and I'd say that was day where she is quite comfortably being Diana who is hanging out with her friend in London.

    I would say that she is both Diana and Wonder Woman 24/7 because she doesn't consider these two parts of her to be separate identities. She is both, and is comfortable with being both. While I would like Azz to show more of Diana's social life, I'd say he's given us enough tidbits now to show that she's very comfortable in mans world and has no trouble blending in as both Diana and Wonder Woman.

    It just feels weird trying to force her into this position of somehow being uncomfortable in man's world and having trouble fitting in when she's clearly doing a great job of it in he rown title. It's jarring and very annoying. I also dislike that it feels like Diana is being forced to change who she is to fit into Clark's world, though this is probably myself, and other fans too, reading too much into it. But something about it makes me feel very uncomfortable.

  15. #60
    Needs more lesbian RandomFalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    I think if you look objectively you will see an obvious difference between Wonder Woman's costume and Power Girl's. Whereas the top she is wearing to dinner with Clark looks like one of PG's cast-offs.
    To be fair, the outfit she's wearing could have looked good and isn't that dissimilar to what she wore in issue #4 when she was at the club. It's just unfortunate that the artist decided to give her huge fake boobs to squash into that ill fitting top. At least the artist actually looked at the kind of outfits that she wears in her own title.

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