Jason the outlaw or Jason the Bat-boy?

[SpadesSlick]

It's easy to tell where they stand. Jason is going to continue to kill people, except in Gotham.

[Robotman4]

It's easy to tell where they stand. Jason is going to continue to kill people, except in Gotham.

Which is soooo hypocritical of Bruce! "No one in my family can kill or use guns! ...except for Jason."

I don't want Jason to be the psychopath villain that he was after he was first resurrected but working side by side with the rest of the family is ridiculous.

[SpadesSlick]

That's not really working side by side with them.

He basically stays out of gotham anyways.

Seems more like a, you stay out of my way and i'll stay out of yours type of thing.

[Robotman4]

That's not really working side by side with them.

He basically stays out of gotham anyways.

Seems more like a, you stay out of my way and i'll stay out of yours type of thing.

he's wearing the Bat symbol and everyone knows what he does. it's basically Bruce turning a blind eye or pretending he doesnt notice Jason killing a bunch of people even though he tells everyone else not to. if Batman wont stop him from doing what he does, someone like Superman surely would.

[RedHood087]

I think the fact that he serves on Batman Inc' as Wingman is indicative of Bruce actively working with Jason and maybe, as Tim feels, deep down Bruce also feels that Jason is the only one capable of doing things the others don't. The fact he wears a bat on his costume as Red Hood is also indicative of Bruce, if not accepting of it, knows that what Jason does is a unnecessary evil and knows that he can't change him.

[Conway]

I think the fact that he serves on Batman Inc' as Wingman is indicative of Bruce actively working with Jason and maybe, as Tim feels, deep down Bruce also feels that Jason is the only one capable of doing things the others don't. The fact he wears a bat on his costume as Red Hood is also indicative of Bruce, if not accepting of it, knows that what Jason does is a unnecessary evil and knows that he can't change him.

I'm not even sure Snyder's Batman could notice the bat on his chest.

The "no-kill" Batman we've had for the last 50 years has let a lot of vigilante killers go, but always with a "don't cross my path again" or "I will put you in prison if you kill again". He has "arrested" many good people and turned them over to the system because they broke a law. I don't have a problem with Bruce forgiving someone for going psycho after a trip through the Lazarus Pit, but Jason is still a killer. He doesn't carry a bow staff or escrima sticks or even batarangs, he carries guns. Even if I accepted that he wasn't mad at Bruce anymore, (even though he says it over and over in his own title) I can't accept Bruce inviting him into the Bat-Cave. Even a family dinner in the mansion would be a stretch. And that's just Bruce.

The only way that the other Robins would be okay with Jason is if Battle for the Cowl didn't happen. I could almost buy Tim forgiving him and making up, but Damian doesn't forgive, and Dick has no tolerance for killers. Especially people that tried to kill his "Brothers".

Jason the Bat-Boy just doesn't fit. Jason the outlaw is something DCU needs more of since goody two shoes like the Trinity and AQ are the focus of the brand right now.

[Lancerman]

What the hell is Bruce going to do to Jason? He already is tortured by the whole letting him die as a kid thing. Jason also is privvy to every bit of information Batman has. All he has to do is swear up and down in public that Bruce Wayne is Batman and provide some small amount of evidence to make life miserable for all of them. Most of the criminal element knows the Red Hood by now. They will take him seriously.

[Lancerman]

I'm not even sure Snyder's Batman could notice the bat on his chest.

The "no-kill" Batman we've had for the last 50 years has let a lot of vigilante killers go, but always with a "don't cross my path again" or "I will put you in prison if you kill again". He has "arrested" many good people and turned them over to the system because they broke a law. I don't have a problem with Bruce forgiving someone for going psycho after a trip through the Lazarus Pit, but Jason is still a killer. He doesn't carry a bow staff or escrima sticks or even batarangs, he carries guns. Even if I accepted that he wasn't mad at Bruce anymore, (even though he says it over and over in his own title) I can't accept Bruce inviting him into the Bat-Cave. Even a family dinner in the mansion would be a stretch. And that's just Bruce.

The only way that the other Robins would be okay with Jason is if Battle for the Cowl didn't happen. I could almost buy Tim forgiving him and making up, but Damian doesn't forgive, and Dick has no tolerance for killers. Especially people that tried to kill his "Brothers".

Jason the Bat-Boy just doesn't fit. Jason the outlaw is something DCU needs more of since goody two shoes like the Trinity and AQ are the focus of the brand right now.

Uh Damians tried to kill Tim before. So there goes that.

[Conway]

Uh Damians tried to kill Tim before. So there goes that.

And they still hate each other, Tim has tried to forgive him but Damian won't let it slide. In BftC Jason shot Damian through the heart while under Dick's protection. That is the kind of thing both Dick and Damian take personally. The idea that Jason would even be in the mansion after he shot Bruce's son through the heart is insane.

[MillerFan]

I think Jason has been plagued with many problems like:

1. DC is not comfortable with anti-heroes or basically characters that kill. This comes as a surprise seeing that their main competitor Marvel has turned their popular anti-heroes (Deadpool, Punisher, Wolverine, Hulk, etc.) into cash-cows.

2. The current watered down phase of Jason is reminiscent of his Countdown days where he was universe-hopping with his former teen-titan pals like in Outlaws. And we all know how well it turned out for him ?

3. Jason never had a dedicated writer who was passionate and invested in him. If only Winick has played a role similar to what Ed Brubaker played for Bucky, Jason's characterization would not have been such a mess.

4. Jason works better as a loner than as a team player. He would have worked much better as either a Black-ops member of JLA or tech-savy vigilante as wriiten by Morrison. In the end, this image conveys the message more clearly than anything else.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

I think Jason has been plagued with many problems like:

1. DC is not comfortable with anti-heroes or basically characters that kill. This comes as a surprise seeing that their main competitor Marvel has turned their popular anti-heroes (Deadpool, Punisher, Wolverine, Hulk, etc.) into cash-cows.

2. The current watered down phase of Jason is reminiscent of his Countdown days where he was universe-hopping with his former teen-titan pals like in Outlaws. And we all know how well it turned out for him ?

3. Jason never had a dedicated writer who was passionate and invested in him. If only Winick has played a role similar to what Ed Brubaker played for Bucky, Jason's characterization would not have been such a mess.

4. Jason works better as a loner than as a team player. He would have worked much better as either a Black-ops member of JLA or tech-savy vigilante as wriiten by Morrison. In the end, this image conveys the message more clearly than anything else.

1. This's an odd point for DC true, but there had their share of anti heroes like Lobo, Hitman or Azrael. In the end is the lack of interest in the fanbase that determinate their fate.

2. To each their own but I found Jason's plot being the stronger part of Countdown. Whatever happened next wasn't fault of a weak plot,it was fault of poorly editorial management. I mean, Jason was to assume the Red Robin (and at first he was to be Nightwing) identity but thanks to Morrison's plans this was nixed.

3. I disagree, Lobdell has showed to be prety dedicated to the Outlaws at the point that for a lot of people is his best book. And as great as Winnick was on the initial arc, he only saw Jason like a Villian and under his pen Jason was a one tricky pony: The angsty badass with mary sue traits. I'm a firmly believer that the periodic rotation of writers is the best path for Jason as character since it constantly brings new things to the table. Making him a more deeper character.

4. At first I was wary of Jason on a team but now I'm loving it. Since the Johns's Titans issue I've always thought that Jason needed some friends to counter his loner tendencies and RHATO is the perfect example of this. Seriously without Roy and Kory I doubt that the book it would be lasted this long. Is hard to categorize Morrison's work on Jason since he has used him mre like a plot device that like a real character (the whole redheaded stunt was pretty awful for this).

[Mahou Otaku]

Just throwing my thoughts in here for each topic. Hope you don't mind.

1. This's an odd point for DC true, but there had their share of anti heroes like Lobo, Hitman or Azrael. In the end is the lack of interest in the fanbase that determinate their fate.

I have to agree with this one. DC will print what sells, basically. Lobo was actually popular for a while there. I never actually read him, but I kept hearing about him. Azrael was big enough to support a series back in the day, and keeps reappearing, so that's something at least. Not sure whatever happened to Hitman, and honestly never read him though he was a critical success if not commercially viable.

2. To each their own but I found Jason's plot being the stronger part of Countdown. Whatever happened next wasn't fault of a weak plot,it was fault of poorly editorial management. I mean, Jason was to assume the Red Robin (and at first he was to be Nightwing) identity but thanks to Morrison's plans this was nixed.

I humbly suggest there is no strong part to Countdown. I really didn't get into the series at all, though that's not really here or there I suppose.

3. I disagree, Lobdell has showed to be prety dedicated to the Outlaws at the point that for a lot of people is his best book. And as great as Winnick was on the initial arc, he only saw Jason like a Villian and under his pen Jason was a one tricky pony: The angsty badass with mary sue traits. I'm a firmly believer that the periodic rotation of writers is the best path for Jason as character since it constantly brings new things to the table. Making him a more deeper character.

He has undergone substantial character changes from his first re-emergence until now due to changing of directions creatively, I think. He's not quite as crazed, he's more calm now. Less whining about dying his hair color and more shooting bad guys, so therapy must be working for him.

4. At first I was wary of Jason on a team but now I'm loving it. Since the Johns's Titans issue I've always thought that Jason needed some friends to counter his loner tendencies and RHATO is the perfect example of this. Seriously without Roy and Kory I doubt that the book it would be lasted this long. Is hard to categorize Morrison's work on Jason since he has used him mre like a plot device that like a real character (the whole redheaded stunt was pretty awful for this).

Jason is okay with one or two others, but on a full fledged team? I just don't know if it'd work. Imagine him on the Justice League? JSA? Outsiders, even? I don't even think the Outsiders would put up with him really. Not that the JSA is official or the Outsiders even exist any more, but you get my point.

[Mr. Holmes]

A team equivalent to Marvel's "Uncanny X-Force" would work for Jason. But I much prefer the current dynamic.

[jmresp]

I could see Jason on a team with Roy, Guy Gardner, Superboy, and Katana in the new DC.

[vampiric_cannibal]

I could see Jason on a team with Roy, Guy Gardner, Superboy, and Katana in the new DC.

That would be hilarious. It might benefit from someone trying to herd the cats. Scandal maybe?