Was One More Day to Mary Jane what Amazing 121 was to Gwen Stacy?

[ShaggyB]

There's the argument that Amazing Spider-Man #121 transformed Gwen Stacy into something she had never been before. Perhaps if she hadn't died, she just would have eventually become one of Peter's ex-girlfriends, like Betty Brant. Instead, she became a symbol of innocence and of slight controversy, with most questions devoted to one storyline, and the wisdom of reversing it.

I'm wondering if One More Day did the same thing for Mary Jane. An obvious difference is that The Night Gwen Stacy Died is widely considered one of the best Spider-Man stories, while One More Day's flaws are acknowledged by many of those who think retconning the marriage was a good idea. This is also a situation in which the readers remember something the characters don't.

But looking at the Mary Jane Appreciation thread, a lot of what people like about the character is based on either an idealized version, or what could have been. It's the legend of Mary Jane, rather than what was on the page.

For example, this illustration by lone_wolf is beautifully done, but doesn't reflect anything that happened in the regular comics.


There was also a gag based on the idea that Gwen and MJ were in love with Peter in high school, when they never went to high school together. That sort of stuff.

let me just say that is a great picture. Makes me miss spider-girl

[Confuzzled Mutie]

These would be examples of what I'm talking about.

Peter Parker didn't meet Mary Jane until he had been Spider-Man for some time.


They did not go to high school (or even college) together.


This isn't the Mary Jane who won the 1967 alley award.

Neither of these are instances of idealization as such. The first one is a fan's artistic interpretation of the relationship pulling more from the Raimi films than 616- "Aunt May, Aunt May, is that an angel?" and the second is just a take on the Lee/Romita years known as the "Betty and Veronica Era"- http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/w...-and-veronica/ MJ won the Alley Award because she was so unlike Gwen and the other typical Silver Age superhero love interests.

[Confuzzled Mutie]

Am gonna add "Superior Spider-Man #2" to that mix of horribleness, once again Slott's excuse of "As long as I'm Spider-Man, we can't be together" bullturkey.

Hey, I get that it is frustrating that Marvel is just using the Peter/MJ relationship as a carrot on a stick for the fans, but would you have preferred Superior getting it on with MJ? After years of waiting for MJ and Peter to get back together? Now that would have been a real blow to the stomach!

[lone_wolf]

These would be examples of what I'm talking about.

Peter Parker didn't meet Mary Jane until he had been Spider-Man for some time.

They did not go to high school (or even college) together.

Actually they all went to ESU...though I believe (since she's a year younger) she was a freshman at the time (I'll have to double check that one). Just reread some old college issues.

There's one incident where MJ barely survived a bomb blast (Though this is some time after Gwen's death). She was hospitalized for a bit and when she returned to the ESU campus, she ran into Pete in the hallway and he noted that she wasn't enrolled that semester. Apparently she was following her doctor's orders of taking it easy since she was just got released from the hospital.
After that incident, you don't see her enrolled at ESU anymore until after she married Pete and years later decides to return with a different major. I believe she was originally a theater major since (during the White Tiger/Hector Ayala arcs in Spectacular Spider-man) she was involved in numerous college productions.

Regarding the ones I reread a couple months ago,I could have sworn they were on campus together (especially during the time Flash was drafted).

--Wolfie

[Confuzzled Mutie]

She had enrolled at ESU much before Gwen's death. I believe she was a year younger than the rest of the gang. There was that incident when Gwen had left for London and MJ and Peter had an altercation on campus(this was during Harry's drug abuse days). Then immediately after Gwen's death, MJ and Flash tried to comfort Peter when they met him on campus. MJ repeatedly tried to cheer Peter up by taking him/making him take her to college events and get togethers.

[RyanParkerMan]

Women weren't portrayed negatively in either Sins Past or OMD.

I actually think that this is probably the best time in Marvel's history for female characters. Three females have their own ongoing, there is a female team book coming soon and several high profile teams have women in pivotal roles where they contribute more than just being kidnapped/abused to complicate the male hero's lives.

I don't agree with the two posters who think Marvel has no respect for women. That's insane. But I disagree with you. Gwen was portrayed horribly in Sins Past and MJ was portrayed poorly in OMIT.

[Russell]

I don't agree with the two posters who think Marvel has no respect for women. That's insane. But I disagree with you. Gwen was portrayed horribly in Sins Past and MJ was portrayed poorly in OMIT.

MJ was absolutely portrayed poorly in OMIT, I agree with you there. Worst Spidey story I've read. I was just talking about OMD in that post, where I think she was written 'well' in spite of what that was.

I could have done without Sins Past, but I don't think Gwen's portrayal was really inconsistent with what we had seen of her. What she did was bad, but not unforgivable and not out of the question in my mind.

[David Walton]

In hindsight, OMD did turn MJ into something's she not.

Single.

[RyanParkerMan]

MJ was absolutely portrayed poorly in OMIT, I agree with you there. Worst Spidey story I've read. I was just talking about OMD in that post, where I think she was written 'well' in spite of what that was.

I could have done without Sins Past, but I don't think Gwen's portrayal was really inconsistent with what we had seen of her. What she did was bad, but not unforgivable and not out of the question in my mind.

Except it was inconsistent within the story itself. Peter basically tells MJ that he never slept with Gwen. So for her to lose her virginity to Norman is just an awful thing for the history of the character.

[Scott Taylor]

ASM 121 essentially turned Gwen into a legend, never to be forgotten as Peter's first and true love who he lost tragically. OMD turned MJ into just another ex-girlfriend who is still alive and well and it turned the married years into a footnote. Not seeing the direct comparison, personally.

[Mark_S]

ASM 121 essentially turned Gwen into a legend, never to be forgotten as Peter's first and true love who he lost tragically. OMD turned MJ into just another ex-girlfriend who is still alive and well and it turned the married years into a footnote. Not seeing the direct comparison, personally.

In my opinion one helped the character by creating a legacy, the other helped diminish the character.

[Spidey_Legend]

I think that both Sins Past and OMIT were created to dismiss Gwen and MJ as Peter's most important girlfriend as expecte from fans to say "what a pair of whores, Spidey should forgot them quickly to hook up with some other". Simply like that, Marvel keep those story to promote Spidey's next chick.

[xElijahSnowx]

There's the argument that Amazing Spider-Man #121 transformed Gwen Stacy into something she had never been before. Perhaps if she hadn't died, she just would have eventually become one of Peter's ex-girlfriends, like Betty Brant. Instead, she became a symbol of innocence and of slight controversy, with most questions devoted to one storyline, and the wisdom of reversing it.

I'm wondering if One More Day did the same thing for Mary Jane. An obvious difference is that The Night Gwen Stacy Died is widely considered one of the best Spider-Man stories, while One More Day's flaws are acknowledged by many of those who think retconning the marriage was a good idea. This is also a situation in which the readers remember something the characters don't.

But looking at the Mary Jane Appreciation thread, a lot of what people like about the character is based on either an idealized version, or what could have been. It's the legend of Mary Jane, rather than what was on the page.

For example, this illustration by lone_wolf is beautifully done, but doesn't reflect anything that happened in the regular comics.


There was also a gag based on the idea that Gwen and MJ were in love with Peter in high school, when they never went to high school together. That sort of stuff.

That is one of the best MJ shots I've seen in a long time. It perfectly captures her imagery. Man...well done.

As for the question itself...I am really not sure how to answer it. The MJ of today is not the mature MJ in the marriage. And she wasn't always mature there, either. But she's really not the rock now she once was. I think it's pretty obvious she was de-aged a bit, like Peter was in BND...which effects this some.

I'm inclined to answer no - but my idealized version of MJ is probably a lot of what we saw in Spider-Girl and a lot of what we get in this image. This image makes me think she's the rock she was when Peter and MJ's marriage was written well. A supporting wife. A great mom. The strong woman behind the Spider-Man. Not a degrading thing in anyway.