io9's 12 Things that "Ruined" Superman*

[Mat001]

God, you are such a shill. You gotta be a plant.

I'm a shill for pointing out the changing tastes of comic book readers? Batman had four movies and an animated series during this time period. The X-Men had their cartoon and a complex web of stories which brought readers back every month. Spawn, as I noted, had the power of Todd MacFarlane and the whole 90's hero gimmick to back him up. Superman only had a television series and an animated series to work off of. It isn't that DC was trying to sabotage the character. It was the fans outgrowing him, or finding books that were better than what they were reading. Or had ever read.

The fact is Uncanny X-Men, the New Teen Titans and Legion Of Superheroes were all revolutionary in the 1980's, because they offered stuff that the other books weren't giving them. More adult level stories that appealed to readers who were starting to become jaded by the other books. And when the 90's rolled around, though only two fell by the wayside, the X books remained popular because of what had gone before and what was coming now.

[net06]

I wouldn't work for a multimedia news conglomerate out of my own sense of morality, let alone if I were Clark Kent.
For the time being I approve of Clark's relationship with Diana. I certainly have no reason to dislike it yet, besides I never liked Lois.

[Kurosawa]

I'm a shill for pointing out the changing tastes of comic book readers? Batman had four movies and an animated series during this time period. The X-Men had their cartoon and a complex web of stories which brought readers back every month. Spawn, as I noted, had the power of Todd MacFarlane and the whole 90's hero gimmick to back him up. Superman only had a television series and an animated series to work off of. It isn't that DC was trying to sabotage the character. It was the fans outgrowing him, or finding books that were better than what they were reading. Or had ever read.

The fact is Uncanny X-Men, the New Teen Titans and Legion Of Superheroes were all revolutionary in the 1980's, because they offered stuff that the other books weren't giving them. More adult level stories that appealed to readers who were starting to become jaded by the other books. And when the 90's rolled around, though only two fell by the wayside, the X books remained popular because of what had gone before and what was coming now.

Yeah, I can't take someone seriously who parrots the company line. Sorry.

[Mat001]

I hate to tell you, but it isn't the company line. Look at those numbers and you will see what is what with Superman's popularity compared to other comic books. Look at the fierce debates on the internet. I know you'd like to believe differently, but the world doesn't work that way.

[rhymeswithparc]

When Superman was "fresh and new" at the beginning of the New52, Action Comics was the third highest selling DC book for a good number of months. To me, this says that there was a huge amount of interest and popularity in the character especially compared to DC's other characters. I think that this was due to a desire to read good Superman stories, however the numbers are likely what they are because of a lack of this. I think that if DC had kept the quality of their Superman books up when the New52 started (because that was the easiest way to get people interested) then we probably wouldn't be having the discussion of how popular Superman is relative to other characters.

[Kurosawa]

I hate to tell you, but it isn't the company line. Look at those numbers and you will see what is what with Superman's popularity compared to other comic books. Look at the fierce debates on the internet. I know you'd like to believe differently, but the world doesn't work that way.

Believe what you want to believe, which will always be what DC says.

[klinton]

When Superman was "fresh and new" at the beginning of the New52, Action Comics was the third highest selling DC book for a good number of months. To me, this says that there was a huge amount of interest and popularity in the character especially compared to DC's other characters. I think that this was due to a desire to read good Superman stories, however the numbers are likely what they are because of a lack of this. I think that if DC had kept the quality of their Superman books up when the New52 started (because that was the easiest way to get people interested) then we probably wouldn't be having the discussion of how popular Superman is relative to other characters.

The thing with Superman is that it's hard to keep him interesting in the long run.

His best stories are all retellings of his origins and/or revisiting classic concepts and characters.

The stories that re-hash that always get touted as "good" Superman stories, while anything in the ongoings that diverge from this are panned by the fandom at large.

I say this as a fan of the character who has hopped on and off over the years, and been guilty of the same criticisms myself.

I've kind oh decided with the 'New 52' to drop all of my expectations and enjoy what comes. For the most part, I've been rewarded with stories that I'm enjoying (baring that gawd awful Helspont mess...what WAS that?).

/2cents.

[Mr. Holmes]

When Superman was "fresh and new" at the beginning of the New52, Action Comics was the third highest selling DC book for a good number of months. To me, this says that there was a huge amount of interest and popularity in the character especially compared to DC's other characters. I think that this was due to a desire to read good Superman stories, however the numbers are likely what they are because of a lack of this. I think that if DC had kept the quality of their Superman books up when the New52 started (because that was the easiest way to get people interested) then we probably wouldn't be having the discussion of how popular Superman is relative to other characters.

Nah the numbers are because Superman isn't being tied to events and big hype like Batman, GL, and Justice League. Not to mention, they're selling fine in all.

[Mat001]

When Superman was "fresh and new" at the beginning of the New52, Action Comics was the third highest selling DC book for a good number of months. To me, this says that there was a huge amount of interest and popularity in the character especially compared to DC's other characters. I think that this was due to a desire to read good Superman stories, however the numbers are likely what they are because of a lack of this. I think that if DC had kept the quality of their Superman books up when the New52 started (because that was the easiest way to get people interested) then we probably wouldn't be having the discussion of how popular Superman is relative to other characters.

Do take note though that the names Grant Morrison and George Perez brought in the interest initially. But Superman still came in third to Batman and other books.

Believe what you want to believe, which will always be what DC says.

Except I'm going by the sales like you are. Between 1979 and 1985, the top selling books were Uncanny X-Men, The New Teen Titans and Legion Of Superheroes. Any ground that Superman had lost was due to people wanting to read books that were better written and more diverse. Those books appealed to people. In the 1990's, Uncanny X-Men was at the top often due to the popularity of that book. Marvel gained larger readership in the 70's, as you ascertain, because their books gained in popularity and diversity. You want to believe that DC was intentionally disrespecting Superman because you're afraid of the truth, that some people just plain lost interest in the character. Whether it was the classic writers of the 70's, or the writing team of the 90's.

[Kurosawa]

The sales on Superman dropped around 1980 because Maggin left and they took Bates and Pasko off the books and replaced them with Marvel writers. Had they stayed the course with DC guys who got Superman instead of people like Wolfman, the sales would have stayed up.

[Mat001]

But you cannot say for certain that hiring Marvel writers brought sales down in 1980. You can only guess that was the case. After all, sales came up with Byrne took over. You also cannot discount that readers wanted to read something other than Superman, even when written by well received writers.

[lazlo_toth]

Point 1 is the only really valid point in the article. Point 12 may turn out to be true. It's too early to tell, but it doesn't look good for now.

What's wrong with him flying? I admit that towing the earth on a giant chain is stupid, but flying in and of itself is not a problem. I would think that falls into the realm of random deus-ex-machina-like powers covered under #3.

[lazlo_toth]

Hmm...I probably would have agreed with this 6 months or so ago. But then Morrison's story devolved into a confusing mess and Perez stopped doing Superman. Now they are forcing the Wonder Woman romance on us...just seems like things are going downhill fast. I hope I"m wrong but it's not looking good.

I don't think you're wrong. I think that, like many aspects of the reboot, it wasn't really thought out in detail, and DC figured they could make it up as they go along, and the whole thing is going to impode. If in another year or so it turns out that I was wrong, and there was some sort of briliant master-plan in place and everything coalesces beautifully, I will gladly eat crow. As far as Superman is concerned, I hope the new Scott Snyder book is good. I stopped buying any of the superman books because they were just unreadable and I found that I just didn't give a s#! about any of the characters, Supergirl especially. For somebody who'd been buying Superman for 25+years (and who until recently thought that Grant Morrison could do no wrong) this was a bitter pill to swallow...