io9's 12 Things that "Ruined" Superman*

[thetrellan]

Place me on ignore and never speak to me again.

Revel in your ignorance then. Feel free to find offense given where none was intended. The rape comment may have been lame, but it was neither question nor accusation. You ignore it when I carefully phrase things so as not to offend, then go right ahead and rip into me. I even backed away from statements labeling those classic stories lame, because I don't really hate them, just the policies under which they were written.

Yeah, there is a certain charm to them, but even though I only 11 back then, I was offended by the degree to which my intelligence, my very childhood, was being insulted in them. Maybe I just took them the wrong way, or maybe- bear in mind that I don't know you and have no wish to offend you- maybe you just weren't smart enough at the time to be insulted.

The fact that you don't comment when I point out your inconsistencies and flat out errors would seem to suggest at least some intelligence.

Then again, the fact that you make it so easy to take the moral high ground would seem to suggest the opposite.

The fact is, you don't know what you're talking about. You have made that abundantly clear.

More so, since I, too, feel that comics today proceed from a wrong turn made somewhere along the line. I don't like all of this unrelieved darkness. Dark and deep tends to end up at the bottom of my reading stack. DC needs to stop pussyfooting around and do a complete and total reboot so that fans of the present can know the thrill of rediscovering these beloved characters along with us veteran collectors, and Marvel clearly needs to make some serious changes, because at this point I can't even summon up the desire to keep up with even one of those titles, never mind that they have such brilliant talent at their disposal.

I could go on about what I think and believe, but it wouldn't matter because clearly I would be speaking to a deaf audience, one more interested in alienating anyone who disagrees with him. Or her.

But there I go again, trying in vain to avoid offending someone who will be offended no matter what I say or how I say it. Just know that if anything in this post insults you in any way, I was trying to be nice, but you handed me the ammunition. Hell, you lined up the sights.

[Mat001]

I'm sorry you needed to do that as well. Like I said I took a stand right away and let it be known this is what I like and if you don't like then they could all go to hell .

The only way to stop a bully or being teased is to face it head on much like Superman. Never hide what you are in life because doing so only takes away from what you really are and what you really enjoy.

Anyone who doesn't get that is meaningless and not worth your time to begin with.

Well, I was never teased over comics. It was over other stuff. I just didn't want to add more fuel to the fire, if it had gotten out. Once I realized it was a non issue, then it was no problem. Hell, on my Facebook account, I have no problem referring to my trips to FCDB and the Black Friday sales, after I've gone out and bought what I've bought. No problems wearing Superman and Batman hats, nor comic t-shirts.

And to point out, there is no such thing as a self-hating comic fan, unlike say self-hating Jews. But I do sorta understand where thetrellan is coming from. Nostalgia does paint a picture with all kinds of things, not just comics. I can't watch the original "He-Man & The Masters Of The Universe" anymore, because it doesn't appeal to me that way that it did as a kid. I didn't buy the DVD's when they came out ten years back, but I did watch the Christmas special back in 2011 and I could barely get through it. After seeing the 2002 series, it's hard to see the more kid-friendly version of the series. This is the opposite of "Thundercats" and "Transformers" Generation 1, when I've watched them after an extended absence and find that they still hold up, even with the cheese.

One is not self-hating, when they express their opinion about the entertainment that they grew up with, which is not as forgiving as it used to be. It just means that they're being honest.

[Lexrules]

Revel in your ignorance then. Feel free to find offense given where none was intended. The rape comment may have been lame, but it was neither question nor accusation. You ignore it when I carefully phrase things so as not to offend, then go right ahead and rip into me. I even backed away from statements labeling those classic stories lame, because I don't really hate them, just the policies under which they were written.

Yeah, there is a certain charm to them, but even though I only 11 back then, I was offended by the degree to which my intelligence, my very childhood, was being insulted in them. Maybe I just took them the wrong way, or maybe- bear in mind that I don't know you and have no wish to offend you- maybe you just weren't smart enough at the time to be insulted.

The fact that you don't comment when I point out your inconsistencies and flat out errors would seem to suggest at least some intelligence.

Then again, the fact that you make it so easy to take the moral high ground would seem to suggest the opposite.

The fact is, you don't know what you're talking about. You have made that abundantly clear.

More so, since I, too, feel that comics today proceed from a wrong turn made somewhere along the line. I don't like all of this unrelieved darkness. Dark and deep tends to end up at the bottom of my reading stack. DC needs to stop pussyfooting around and do a complete and total reboot so that fans of the present can know the thrill of rediscovering these beloved characters along with us veteran collectors, and Marvel clearly needs to make some serious changes, because at this point I can't even summon up the desire to keep up with even one of those titles, never mind that they have such brilliant talent at their disposal.

I could go on about what I think and believe, but it wouldn't matter because clearly I would be speaking to a deaf audience, one more interested in alienating anyone who disagrees with him. Or her.

But there I go again, trying in vain to avoid offending someone who will be offended no matter what I say or how I say it. Just know that if anything in this post insults you in any way, I was trying to be nice, but you handed me the ammunition. Hell, you lined up the sights.

Kurosawa is a great poster. He has passion for the character like few I have seen before. He loves when comics were what they should always be meant for The Kids. It was the arrogance of us the adult comic book reader that pretty much ripped these characters from the kids and proclaimed them as ours because we could never let go of our childhood.

This has been coming since the mid 80's to the point I don't think comics will ever be able to be just for kids again and that above all else is what has destroyed the comic book business and will continue to do so until there will be nothing left. I look at today's comic book readers and I am sad beyond words. Not because of the content but because I that very content has prohibited children to be able to pick up the books that the adults are reading. I remember what joy I had to be reading Superman when I was 5 back in 1978 and it made it even better that it was the same comic my father was reading because it reached every level. We unfortunately don't have that anymore because a 5 to 10 year old most likely are not allowed to read what their parents are reading because the parent is being responsible and seeing this is not gear for kids anymore.

Comics being the way they are in both sales and content is OUR fault. I hope we enjoy what we as responsible adults have sown.

[thetrellan]

You should never be afraid of what you are and what you like. You were bullied because you allowed it. I read Superman comics and did what ever the hell I wanted and if anyone didn't like it then that was to bad. I was a short fat kid who was king of the nerds and never got picked on because people knew I was my own person and not afraid to show it and they respected that. I wound up being friends with everyone because of it.

I'm sorry you felt you needed to do that to fit in instead of just saying this is what I am and what I enjoy and if you don't like it then go scratch.

Does the expression "throwing around his weight" mean anything to you? There's a reason fat guys are chosen as bouncers.

You often go around blaming victims for being victimized?

[Lexrules]

Does the expression "throwing around his weight" mean anything to you? There's a reason fat guys are chosen as bouncers.

You often go around blaming victims for being victimized?

A victim is often the victim only because they allow themselves to be. Much like a housewife in a abusive relationship. The only way to stop it is to stand up for yourself and get out.

Everyone has the stuff in them to stand up to any problem one only needs to find that inner strength to do so.

[Mat001]

You can stand up for yourself, but that doesn't stop the bullying. That only stops when they get tired of it or something else comes along and stops it for you.

[the Sun God]

A victim is often the victim only because they allow themselves to be. Much like a housewife in a abusive relationship. The only way to stop it is to stand up for yourself and get out.

Everyone has the stuff in them to stand up to any problem one only needs to find that inner strength to do so.

Lexrules: champion of the oppressed

[thetrellan]

Kurosawa is a great poster. He has passion for the character like few I have seen before. He loves when comics were what they should always be meant for The Kids. It was the arrogance of us the adult comic book reader that pretty much ripped these characters from the kids and proclaimed them as ours because we could never let go of our childhood.

This has been coming since the mid 80's to the point I don't think comics will ever be able to be just for kids again and that above all else is what has destroyed the comic book business and will continue to do so until there will be nothing left. I look at today's comic book readers and I am sad beyond words. Not because of the content but because I that very content has prohibited children to be able to pick up the books that the adults are reading. I remember what joy I had to be reading Superman when I was 5 back in 1978 and it made it even better that it was the same comic my father was reading because it reached every level. We unfortunately don't have that anymore because a 5 to 10 year old most likely are not allowed to read what their parents are reading because the parent is being responsible and seeing this is not gear for kids anymore.

Comics being the way they are in both sales and content is OUR fault. I hope we enjoy what we as responsible adults have sown.

A very eloquent and well thought out response. Put that way, I can't help but agree. Yeah, that's surely one of the main reasons comics today just seem wrong.

Don't kid yourself, though. Some of the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of those for whom the bottom line is all that matters. I'll take some of the blame, but not all.

Forgive me if I have trouble taking your word for Kurosawa's greatness. He chose me as a target for his vitriol and refused to discuss any of the points I was bringing to light, so I can't help seeing him as petty and ignorant. I remain open to rational discourse, though.

[thetrellan]

A victim is often the victim only because they allow themselves to be. Much like a housewife in a abusive relationship. The only way to stop it is to stand up for yourself and get out.

Everyone has the stuff in them to stand up to any problem one only needs to find that inner strength to do so.

Even paraplegics? There are limits to this idea, however valid. They also assume the bullies are themselves cowards- not wholly unreasonable, I admit- but some bullies actually take pleasure in being cruel, whatever their motivations, and will use that to keep their victims in fear.

The thing is, that works, and just because the victims have options doesn't make it right to blame them for not seeing that. Fear is the bully's greatest weapon.

[thetrellan]

Even paraplegics? There are limits to this idea, however valid. They also assume the bullies are themselves cowards- not wholly unreasonable, I admit- but some bullies actually take pleasure in being cruel, whatever their motivations, and will use that to keep their victims in fear.

The thing is, that works, and just because the victims have options doesn't make it right to blame them for not seeing that. Fear is the bully's greatest weapon.

Actually, I want to back down from that just a little bit. I can see that Lexrules is trying to be helpful. I was bullied when I was ten- though not over comics- and my fear prevented me from seeing clearly that my tormentor was really afraid of me. Looking back, I can even guess the exact moment he became so.

That information would have been useful at the time.

[thetrellan]

deleted due to unintended triplication

[Lexrules]

Even paraplegics? There are limits to this idea, however valid. They also assume the bullies are themselves cowards- not wholly unreasonable, I admit- but some bullies actually take pleasure in being cruel, whatever their motivations, and will use that to keep their victims in fear.

The thing is, that works, and just because the victims have options doesn't make it right to blame them for not seeing that. Fear is the bully's greatest weapon.

The secret is not to have fear. I know it is easier sad then done for some but like I said we all have it in use to stand up to any challenge including being bullied.

If you can't defend yourself please tell those who can do it for you. If need be strength in numbers is needed. We had a kid who was bullied in school who could not defend himself. He came to us those who knew him and we as a group stopped it from happening again.

[thetrellan]

The secret is not to have fear. I know it is easier sad then done for some but like I said we all have it in use to stand up to any challenge including being bullied.

If you can't defend yourself please tell those who can do it for you. If need be strength in numbers is needed. We had a kid who was bullied in school who could not defend himself. He came to us those who knew him and we as a group stopped it from happening again.

I actually find that a little bit of awesome.

[thetrellan]

Kurosawa is a great poster. He has passion for the character like few I have seen before. He loves when comics were what they should always be meant for The Kids. It was the arrogance of us the adult comic book reader that pretty much ripped these characters from the kids and proclaimed them as ours because we could never let go of our childhood.

This has been coming since the mid 80's to the point I don't think comics will ever be able to be just for kids again and that above all else is what has destroyed the comic book business and will continue to do so until there will be nothing left. I look at today's comic book readers and I am sad beyond words. Not because of the content but because I that very content has prohibited children to be able to pick up the books that the adults are reading. I remember what joy I had to be reading Superman when I was 5 back in 1978 and it made it even better that it was the same comic my father was reading because it reached every level. We unfortunately don't have that anymore because a 5 to 10 year old most likely are not allowed to read what their parents are reading because the parent is being responsible and seeing this is not gear for kids anymore.

Comics being the way they are in both sales and content is OUR fault. I hope we enjoy what we as responsible adults have sown.

By the way, Kurosawa? This here is an example of rational discourse. I didn't appreciate you targeting me like that.

[thetrellan]

Since my post got duplicated again, I will take a moment and say to all that I'm sorry you all had to see that. I had no intention of sparking anything as vile as the preceding discussion, did everything I could to keep it civil, and you all saw the result. Maybe through more careful wording I can avoid this happening in the future, but wow, how was I to know that spot was so tender it would set anyone off like that?

I mean, just...WOW.