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  1. #16
    Veteran Member Flashpoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    I'm enjoying Arrow (Being a show about my favorite character it should have to be atrocious for making me not enjoy it), but TV is different to comic books, some people can be good at producing shows but totally blow at writing comics.

    Don't, seriously don't try to use Marv Wolfman, Chris Claremont or Paul Levitz (I know you did'nt mention him but I will include him anyway) as examples of authors who just needed the right projects to be successful because to me, they belong to that terrible generation of writers who became popular only because they were paired with really talented artists who also helped them to write their best stories.

    Giffen has always been awesome, I'll give you that.

    I'm Hispanic myself and it's cool to see a Hispanic superhero comic being successul, although to be honest the race subject have never been a problem for me, I would enjoy any comic as long as it's good, no matter if it has the whitest, straightest male on the universe as a protagonist.

    Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, it's what I always say. If the comic is good, cool, if not, well...
    RE: writing for TV versus writing for other mediums
    Fair enough. But a win is a win, no matter what--and any writer who finds commercial success on a national or international level deserves enormous credit for their achievement. It's not as easy as most think and Kreisberg deserves credit for his success as well as for writing a strong and powerful story regardless of the medium.

    Claremont hasn't had any significant success outside of X-Men in my humble opinion. However, both Wolfman and Levitz have had big successes on their own without Perez and Giffen. Wolfman was the one who spearheaded revamping Lex Luthor during Byrne's Man Of Steel and he's the man who wrote the character of Slade Wilson AKA Deathstroke--Perez only designed the costume--and Deathstroke has been a *huge* success for decades. Also, I hated "Titans Hunt" with a passion, but even I have to admit it was a huge success and is beloved by many Titans fans. And he didn't write that with George Perez so don't give all the credit to GP. As for Levitz, Paul is the architect of some of the most beloved Earth 2 characters long before his work with Giffen on LSH. He created Power Girl and Huntress and wrote the Death Of Batman all the way back in the 70s. Levitz was very successful long before he teamed up with Keith.

    As for Giffen, I'm not a fan of 90% of his work after 1983. His love affair with the style of artist Jose Munoz ruined his art for me and I absolutely loathed his solo run on LSH in the late 80s. But I give him credit for his success with Lobo and as one of the architects of 52. Plus, he continues to be one of the creators who is still pumping out stories loved by fans even 30 years after his 90,000 copies-a-month LSH peak in 1983.

    Kreisberg has won me over with Arrow and he's earned my support for his run on Vibe. It's the one book I'm most excited for so far this year. I hope it beats people's expectations and is a big hit.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashpoint View Post
    RE: writing for TV versus writing for other mediums
    Fair enough. But a win is a win, no matter what--and any writer who finds commercial success on a national or international level deserves enormous credit for their achievement. It's not as easy as most think and Kreisberg deserves credit for his success as well as for writing a strong and powerful story regardless of the medium.

    Kreisberg has won me over with Arrow and he's earned my support for his run on Vibe. It's the one book I'm most excited for so far this year. I hope it beats people's expectations and is a big hit.
    Dude, I'm not trying to discuss Arrow's success, I'm just saying that the last time I read a comic written by Kreisberg it was terrible. I'm still curious about this series since the premise it's pretty good (One of the best that Johns has created) and it has potential to expand so as I said, if it's good, cool.

    Claremont hasn't had any significant success outside of X-Men in my humble opinion. However, both Wolfman and Levitz have had big successes on their own without Perez and Giffen. Wolfman was the one who spearheaded revamping Lex Luthor during Byrne's Man Of Steel and he's the man who wrote the character of Slade Wilson AKA Deathstroke--Perez only designed the costume--and Deathstroke has been a *huge* success for decades. Also, I hated "Titans Hunt" with a passion, but even I have to admit it was a huge success and is beloved by many Titans fans. And he didn't write that with George Perez so don't give all the credit to GP. As for Levitz, Paul is the architect of some of the most beloved Earth 2 characters long before his work with Giffen on LSH. He created Power Girl and Huntress and wrote the Death Of Batman all the way back in the 70s. Levitz was very successful long before he teamed up with Keith.
    The thing is that I've read a lot of Claremont, Wolfman and Levitz' work without their most famous collaborators/artists and they tend to be bland, overwritten and worst of all, boring. I know they have created lots of classic characters but that does'nt make their stories any more engaging for me.

  3. #18
    Digital Devotee Famousringo's Avatar
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    This news is WTF Certified.
    Same Day: Batgirl, Supergirl, WW, DemonK, JLD, Dial H, Earth 2, SoS
    Maybe Later: Action, GL, Aqua, DCUP, Titans, Firestorm, Animal, Swampy, Batwoman, Worlds F, JL, Flash, PhantomS, BoP, GL: NG

  4. #19
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    Arrow is fine to watch once a week, but the writing is still kind of bland. If I hadn't watched the show from the beginning, there's no way I would be able to watch multiple episodes in a row to catch up.

  5. #20
    Veteran Member Flashpoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Famousringo View Post
    This news is WTF Certified.
    LOL! I know, right? Everyone is predicting failure right out of the gate. I hope this book confounds expectations and has a good, long run. It's certainly getting off to a good start!

  6. #21
    King of My World CagedLeo730's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashpoint View Post
    LOL! I know, right? Everyone is predicting failure right out of the gate. I hope this book confounds expectations and has a good, long run. It's certainly getting off to a good start!
    Blue Beetle started with decent sales. It ended up having 17 issues. Hopefully Vibe surpasses that. But the recent numbers from the last 2 waves don't paint a rosy picture.

  7. #22
    Veteran Member Flashpoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CagedLeo730 View Post
    Blue Beetle started with decent sales. It ended up having 17 issues. Hopefully Vibe surpasses that. But the recent numbers from the last 2 waves don't paint a rosy picture.
    Point taken. But I don't think Blue Beetle was ever anywhere near Nightwing in sales. We'll see how the sales trend is for Vibe after 6 months. Still, it's hard to imagine the book getting off to a better start.

    Next hurdle: the first set of reviews for the debut issue.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Paladin King's Avatar
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    yeah well....let's see what the sales numbers are like for issue 2, when it won't have a shiny new #1 on the cover, the curiosity factor, or Geoff Johns attached to it.
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  9. #24
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    You know, the more I think about it, the more I want this book to be successful.

    I'm not talking about the sales angle since Johns' involvement and JLA's afilliation are going to guarantee some sales. I'm talking about the quality aspect, the new status quo that Johns developed is fantastic and makes me want to see it being exploited, I really hope that Kreisberg is able to deliver.

  10. #25
    Senior Member FIFTY-TWO (52)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CagedLeo730 View Post
    Blue Beetle started with decent sales. It ended up having 17 issues. Hopefully Vibe surpasses that. But the recent numbers from the last 2 waves don't paint a rosy picture.
    I'd say Jaime's status in the DCU is more important than whether or not he has a comic. DC's gone quite the distance to establish a Hispanic kid from El Paso, Tx as the Blue Beetle, from a heartfelt comic that became an under-appreciated darling to increased exposure on popular television shows like Smallville and Batman: Brave and the Bold. Now, his backstory is up front and center in another popular toon, Young Justice. I think Johns is thinking the same strategy with Vibe. I think the character Vibe is gonna be very important very soon.
    "A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

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  11. #26
    Senior Member FIFTY-TWO (52)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashpoint View Post
    Point taken. But I don't think Blue Beetle was ever anywhere near Nightwing in sales. We'll see how the sales trend is for Vibe after 6 months. Still, it's hard to imagine the book getting off to a better start.

    Next hurdle: the first set of reviews for the debut issue.
    Oh, to hell with reviewers, especially the ones here at CBR. They give everything 4 stars, and praise PC clap traps like Young Avengers the "future of comics".
    Half the crap you saw in Young Avengers had already been done by Legion of Superheroes writers back in the late 80's.
    Last edited by FIFTY-TWO (52); 02-01-2013 at 12:44 PM.
    "A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIFTY-TWO (52) View Post
    Oh, to hell with reviewers, especially the ones here at CBR. They give everything 4 stars, and praise PC clap traps like Young Avengers the "future of comics".
    Half the crap you saw in Young Avengers had already been done by Legion of Superheroes writers back in the late 80's.
    She's the same one raving that was raving about how Wonder Woman #7 was an affront to feminism.

    Well at least the other people at CSB, as well as some of the columns from people like Timothy Callahan are pretty good.

  13. #28
    Veteran Member Flashpoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    You know, the more I think about it, the more I want this book to be successful.

    I'm not talking about the sales angle since Johns' involvement and JLA's afilliation are going to guarantee some sales. I'm talking about the quality aspect, the new status quo that Johns developed is fantastic and makes me want to see it being exploited, I really hope that Kreisberg is able to deliver.
    100% enthusiastically agreed.

    I think that is Geoff's greatest gift to DC Comics: his unparalleled ability to distill characters down to their central core and define new status quos that make the characters serve unique and interesting functions in the DCU.

    Vibe + multiple Earths separated by vibration = Vibe as dimensional border cop

    It's so simple, it's brilliant. It's like what Geoff did with Aquaman. Unlike past writers who focused on how to work water, Atlantis and the undersea world into the spotlight, all Geoff did was move Aquaman to land. PRESTO--Aquaman is now a land-based superhero who operates on the ocean or underwater as needed. And it works perfectly.

    Johns' gift for mining DC characters' traits and boiling them down to something likeable, accessible and commercially successful is lightning in a bottle. Ergo, I think his input on establishing this series bodes well for its future. One wonders if Geoff had done the same for Blue Beetle how that book might be doing now, too.

  14. #29
    I'm a male DebkoX's Avatar
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    I see another aquaman. John a transforms a Joke into one of the best.
    “The only thing standing between you and your goal is the bullshit story you keep telling yourself as to why you can't achieve it.”

  15. #30
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
    Oh heck yes!!! Really hoping for a long and successful run. When I saw Vibe was getting an ongoing and then Pete Woods. I started shaking.
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

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