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  1. #46
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Here is how it looked to me in Superboy #16

    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Here is how it looked to me in Superboy #16

    Haha, Look at how Veritas frames her words too. When he calls I answer and you are a friend. Hehe.

    Diana : Oh when he calls you answer, do you? I bet you'd love to do that. His friend, yeah you keep thinking that, doc.

    Or she could just be very serious and grim because the situation is dire. I mean were it Batman or Kon looking like that we'd have little to say.

  3. #48
    Heroine Addict Fused's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    Well, yeah--like I said, I don't think other writers should use it until Azz has defined it more.
    I don't mind the other writer's not consulting Azzarello using her and her new powers. While I like Azz's WW, if feel's like I've spent the past 5 months for that naked guy to get out of the snow. Compelling writing, but the WW main title has been going at a snail's pace.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fused View Post
    I don't mind the other writer's not consulting Azzarello using her and her new powers. While I like Azz's WW, if feel's like I've spent the past 5 months for that naked guy to get out of the snow. Compelling writing, but the WW main title has been going at a snail's pace.
    To me, while the story is a slow-paced one in many ways, the Firstborn piece is moving pretty quickly; other than a one-panel tease in 12, his first real issue was 13, and we got his origin in 14. And he got armed up in 16.

  5. #50
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    To me, while the story is a slow-paced one in many ways, the Firstborn piece is moving pretty quickly; other than a one-panel tease in 12, his first real issue was 13, and we got his origin in 14. And he got armed up in 16.
    Four months to put on some clothes and have one fight, and we call that quickly.

    If its any consoloation to folks that think that is just painfully drawn out, folks have the same complaint about the current Superman arc.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Four months to put on some clothes and have one fight, and we call that quickly.

    If its any consoloation to folks that think that is just painfully drawn out, folks have the same complaint about the current Superman arc.
    Two months to get an enigmatic character's origin? Depends what you compare it to, but yes, I call that quickly--certainly compared to the first year.

  7. #52
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    Two months to get an enigmatic character's origin? Depends what you compare it to, but yes, I call that quickly--certainly compared to the first year.
    My point exactly.

    Just finished watching as episode of Young Justice with Xander. The contents of the last two issues of Wonder Woman would barely fill an single ep, and next week we will have another one to watch. For free, no less.

    Back on topic, there seems to be a tendency for the writers outside of WW to write her as being extremely volatile, especially when it comes to men in her life. She goes right off the deep end when Steve is in danger, to the point of cutting on a team mate, and then in this issue Superboy gets a thinly veiled threat for just questioning Superman's judgment. Which lets face it is pretty questionable. Why the hell store these things on Earth when apparently it would take him as extra few minutes to fly to Saturn's moon Titan, or somewhere else far away from innocent people?

    My point is, Diana's actually personality, which Azz doesnt to badly with, seems to be subsumed by the relationship she is in at the time. There is frequently little effort to show her as a 3 dimensional character of her own.

    Edit - an unless my math is off, 13 - 16 count as four months.
    Last edited by brettc1; 02-02-2013 at 02:34 PM.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    My point exactly.

    Just finished watching as episode of Young Justice with Xander. The contents of the last two issues of Wonder Woman would barely fill an single ep, and next week we will have another one to watch. For free, no less.

    Back on topic, there seems to be a tendency for the writers outside of WW to write her as being extremely volatile, especially when it comes to men in her life. She goes right off the deep end when Steve is in danger, to the point of cutting on a team mate, and then in this issue Superboy gets a thinly veiled threat for just questioning Superman's judgment. Which lets face it is pretty questionable. Why the hell store these things on Earth when apparently it would take him as extra few minutes to fly to Saturn's moon Titan, or somewhere else far away from innocent people?

    My point is, Diana's actually personality, which Azz doesnt to badly with, seems to be subsumed by the relationship she is in at the time. There is frequently little effort to show her as a 3 dimensional character of her own.

    Edit - an unless my math is off, 13 - 16 count as four months.
    When I read a young character I expect some flaws and I must say Azz's WW is kinda preachy at times. I don't see why she has to be controlled all the time. I think there is a fun element in the JL character. I like seeing her stand up for anyone she cares about. She is supposed to be a bit fierce regarding those she loves and she is not some old lady.

    As for her being volatile alone? She isn't alone in being this way in the new 52. Lots of other young female and male characters are very fiesty. Superman flies off the handle as well occasionally. That word volatile is so rigid and judgemental too imo. Like women can't be passionate or lose their tempers. Diana should be able to lose her temper if shee wants to. Not apologize for it or behave like this perfect lady. I think as a fierce Amazon (look at her upbringing) I can see this in the young character. It does not mean that she can't be compassionate. Superboy has been snarky and cocky so it's not like he's being so respectful.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylesgirl View Post
    When I read a young character I expect some flaws and I must say Azz's WW is kinda preachy at times. I don't see why she has to be controlled all the time. I think there is a fun element in the JL character. I like seeing her stand up for anyone she cares about. She is supposed to be a bit fierce regarding those she loves and she is not some old lady.

    As for her being volatile alone? She isn't alone in being this way in the new 52. Lots of other young female and male characters are very fiesty. Superman flies off the handle as well occasionally. That word volatile is so rigid and judgemental too imo. Like women can't be passionate or lose their tempers. Diana should be able to lose her temper if shee wants to. Not apologize for it or behave like this perfect lady. I think as a fierce Amazon (look at her upbringing) I can see this in the young character. It does not mean that she can't be compassionate. Superboy has been snarky and cocky so it's not like he's being so respectful.
    Over on the superboards I read a fair few complaints about Superboys recent characterization as well. Which, according to some, started off pretty layered after the reboot and has gone downhill since.

    There is a difference between losing your temper and punching someone insulting you in the nose and losing your self control and wrecking the place where innocent people live while you spray a teammates blood across the sidewalk. Azz's Diana is not passionless, nor should Wonder Woman be - but she is not wildly off the handle either. There is a difference between having emotions and being totally at their mercy.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Edit - an unless my math is off, 13 - 16 count as four months.
    Your math's not off, but I said that we got the origin in two months; that was in 14, not 16. I wouldn't have been surprised if that origin were still unfolding now, so it was faster than I expected, and the pace seemed to me to be faster than it had been in the first year. I wasn't it comparing it to Young Justice; if you pick that as your comparison point, then yes, you're going to find Wonder Woman slower paced, for better or worse.

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Over on the superboards I read a fair few complaints about Superboys recent characterization as well. Which, according to some, started off pretty layered after the reboot and has gone downhill since.

    There is a difference between losing your temper and punching someone insulting you in the nose and losing your self control and wrecking the place where innocent people live while you spray a teammates blood across the sidewalk. Azz's Diana is not passionless, nor should Wonder Woman be - but she is not wildly off the handle either. There is a difference between having emotions and being totally at their mercy.
    Writing can vary writer to writer but the fact is Superboy IS supposed to be cocky and snarky and a bit angry because right now he has no desire to be where he is and be with the Supers. And Hal Jordan looked for what he got as far as I see. He needed bringing down a peg. Most readers were not too cut up about that because he was so obnoxious in the early days. Imagine someone encasing you in a damn bubble and trying to talk to you as if you some child? When someone you care for is dying. Johns also made the effort to show that Diana did not think the League were there to used to for personal problems. She did not expect them to help her ie with the Cheetah. Her upbringing supports her behaviour and Azz had her birth/ upbringing more unpredictable militant this time around. She was trained by War himself. Zeus genes. I think those are great things for the character to struggle against if people choose to explore them. If it was WW as of old with the more enlightened Amazons and the Ambassador I would say you had a point in that it should never happen. The idea WW never lost her temper and lashed out before in old canon as the Ambassador I find a little hard to believe too. I am sure she did. Diana grew up around "violence" this time around. They spar for entertainment/fun and her own mother sends her off on tough tests where she takes a harpy's baby. Come on.


    And as for Azzarello. He himself said the character is supposed to be impulsive. Have yet to see that. This book is at a snail's pace aand I don't blame any writer not waiting on him. How can any writer write WW if they have to wait for him is truly unfair. It's why we'll never see God Mode outside her book. I would be highly surprised. I do think WW tends to at times come across as a character that does not know how to have fun and Azz has not changed that notion at all with her not having any kind of real life/friends but dealing with Gods and protecting Zola. It's a very limiting way of writing a character with little room for mistakes on her part because you have to keep her well behaved and always doing the proper thing. She was eeven able to talk Sirracca down just like that. Without even any real effort. One little fight and oh I'm your sister. Trust me. I thought that really a wth moment as I did her I love everyone shout. Diana lost her whole family yet as sedate as ever. The excuse of tolerating someone cruel as Hera because she hopes to get her to change her family. Constantly letting Gods tell her what to do. We need to see a chink now and again to feel for this character's pain and other emotions. Last I saw anything was the reveal with the male Amazons which was a great moment. Since then she's so controlled. Else what's the point if nothing fazes her? She's perfect then again isn't she? I like my characters with some variety in their emotions. Younger characters I enjoy seeing growing too.
    Last edited by kylesgirl; 02-03-2013 at 03:42 AM.

  12. #57
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylesgirl View Post
    Writing can vary writer to writer but the fact is Superboy IS supposed to be cocky and snarky and a bit angry because right now he has no desire to be where he is and be with the Supers. And Hal Jordan looked for what he got as far as I see. He needed bringing down a peg. Most readers were not too cut up about that because he was so obnoxious in the early days. Imagine someone encasing you in a damn bubble and trying to talk to you as if you some child? When someone you care for is dying. Johns also made the effort to show that Diana did not think the League were there to used to for personal problems. She did not expect them to help her ie with the Cheetah. Her upbringing supports her behaviour and Azz had her birth/ upbringing more unpredictable militant this time around. She was trained by War himself. Zeus genes. I think those are great things for the character to struggle against if people choose to explore them. If it was WW as of old with the more enlightened Amazons and the Ambassador I would say you had a point in that it should never happen. The idea WW never lost her temper and lashed out before in old canon as the Ambassador I find a little hard to believe too. I am sure she did. Diana grew up around "violence" this time around. They spar for entertainment/fun and her own mother sends her off on tough tests where she takes a harpy's baby. Come on.
    Come on what? Jons had her demolish a street where people live. She put civilians in danger and the League had to evacuate them. Bringing Hal down a peg doenst excuse going nuts and endangering innocent people and you will find more than just me here saying so. Apparently the way to respond to someone talking to you like a child is to throw a tantrum with a two foot long blade.


    And as for Azzarello. He himself said the character is supposed to be impulsive. Have yet to see that. This book is at a snail's pace aand I don't blame any writer not waiting on him. How can any writer write WW if they have to wait for him is truly unfair. It's why we'll never see God Mode outside her book. I would be highly surprised. I do think WW tends to at times come across as a character that does not know how to have fun and Azz has not changed that notion at all with her not having any kind of real life/friends but dealing with Gods and protecting Zola. It's a very limiting way of writing a character with little room for mistakes on her part because you have to keep her well behaved and always doing the proper thing. She was eeven able to talk Sirracca down just like that. Without even any real effort. One little fight and oh I'm your sister. Trust me. I thought that really a wth moment as I did her I love everyone shout. Diana lost her whole family yet as sedate as ever. The excuse of tolerating someone cruel as Hera because she hopes to get her to change her family. Constantly letting Gods tell her what to do. We need to see a chink now and again to feel for this character's pain and other emotions. Last I saw anything was the reveal with the male Amazons which was a great moment. Since then she's so controlled. Else what's the point if nothing fazes her? She's perfect then again isn't she? I like my characters with some variety in their emotions. Younger characters I enjoy seeing growing too.
    Hitting Green Lantern once is excusable. Coming at him with the sword isnt. There has to be a middle ground between totally passive and Hulk smash.
    Last edited by brettc1; 02-03-2013 at 04:50 AM.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Come on what? Jons had her demolish a street where people live. She put civilians in danger and the League had to evacuate them. Bringing Hal down a peg doenst excuse going nuts and endangering innocent people and you will find more than just me here saying so. Apparently the way to respond to someone talking to you like a child is to throw a tantrum with a two foot long blade.
    While I agree that Johns didn't let Wonder Woman take the middle ground in that incident, as we might normally expect that character to do, I have to say that she wasn't just reacting to "someone talking to her like a child"; she was reacting to a colleague (one who had been annoying her for years, by the way) trying to restrain her against her will while she was wracked with grief, guilt and an urgent need to save someone she deeply cares about.

    Why the hell store these things on Earth when apparently it would take him as extra few minutes to fly to Saturn's moon Titan, or somewhere else far away from innocent people?
    Good question, but now it occurs to me that her point could have been that Superboy "criticize[s] Superman at his peril" in that the criticism might be extrapolated to suggest that Superboy himself needs to be carefully supervised. From what I've read of him, Superboy has been considered a living weapon, said to have been created and conditioned for use as a weapon. Maybe she's reminding him that he could be considered a more dangerous weapon than the ones they are fighting, and yet he's not even being kept in a supposedly impregnable fortress; so he should be glad that Superman is likely going to have as much respect for his rights as he had for the well-being of the world that he rescued from these armaments. Of course, if this was the writer's intent, it could have been gotten across a little better....
    Last edited by slvn; 02-03-2013 at 10:17 AM.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Come on what? Jons had her demolish a street where people live. She put civilians in danger and the League had to evacuate them. Bringing Hal down a peg doenst excuse going nuts and endangering innocent people and you will find more than just me here saying so. Apparently the way to respond to someone talking to you like a child is to throw a tantrum with a two foot long blade.

    The beatdown of Hal was justifiable. Play out the prior scene- Steve's sister is yelling, blaming, and demanding that Diana must return her brother. Wonder Woman instinctively runs off on a solo mission because a fellow sister's plea outranks a team effort. Hal stupidly cages a determined Amazon. Diana calmly asked him not once but twice to let her out. He goadingly answers, "No!" BOOM... is exactly how I would have Diana reacted.

  15. #60
    Senior Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    I agree with brettc1 about the sword. A fistfight is fairly reasonable, but using her sword was a bad idea. Sports teammates are known to get into fisticuffs once in a while, but usually the only times weapons come out are when guys are being morons like Gilbert Arenas and just show it as an idle threat.

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