Trinity, Morpheus and Neo (pre-One) VS MCU Hawkeye, Black Widow, and Captain America

[Sol M]

Heck, Captain America, if RUNNNING (and he runs slower than his 'combat movement') can move ~1.5 feet in the time it takes a bullet to reach him from twenty feet.

Is this from a specific feat of his?

Because running at say, 75 feet per second is pretty freaking fast.

[Sharpandpointies]

Is this from a specific feat of his?

Because running at say, 75 feet per second is pretty freaking fast.

Dude can do a one minute mile (feated, I believe). That's 60 mph, same as a cheetah.

[Sol M]

Dude can do a one minute mile (feated, I believe). That's 60 mph, same as a cheetah.

Which basically works out to 88 feet per second. oO

...this is kind of weird, because I don't think people who are supposed to be faster than him (Shiva, Batgirl, even Spiderman) have feats of running that fast, let alone faster. In the case of Spiderman, this is especially amusing and nonsensical, given how vastly superior he is to Cap in every stat. ^^

[Sharpandpointies]

Most writers focus on people's combat speed.

I can buy Cap running at around that speed. The dude is ridiculously faster than a normal human, and normal humans can sprint at up to 25-27 mph. VERY short distance. Cap, though, he can sprint at maximum, amped up Captain America speed for longer because his body doesn't fatigue the same way a normal human's does. So him sprinting 2x as fast as our best and keeping it up for a minute? It's a stretch, but I can buy it.

Plus, he has feats like 'Metahuman throws car, car skidding toward crowd, Cap springs after car, leaps over it, grabs people, and jumps out of the way.'

Shiva's running feats are few and far between, if any. She doesn't 'run'.

Batgirl can keep up with Deathstroke, running speed. She has been depicted doing stuff like running forward, beating people up en route, grabbing someone, then running back, all before a knife dropped by the first guy she took out hits the ground. Her followup statue-beating to the bullet-dance has her crossing about 8'-10' before anyone blinks, twitches, or otherwise is anything but a statue.

There's a scene where Bruce and her bump into someone in an apartment - corner apartment. Bruce is in front of Cass. The person they're after hops out the window and onto the ledge, then starts running. In the amount of time it takes Bruce to cross the 5-10' feet to the window, Cass -

1. Runs to the other exerior wall of the room.
2. Goes out THAT window.
3. Runs along the window ledge on that side of the corner of the building, takes the corner, and runs past the window Batman is coming out of.

Note - Bruce still hasn't come out of the window. He's sort of half-way.

Same issue (Batgirl Annual 1), she blitzes all the guiards on an estate, shown as nothing more than vague speedlines as she zips around the estate.

She has also been depicted as running so fast that the wind of her passage literally pulls a woman's hair sideways.

Peter Parker....he's trickier, because he usually webs his way around, or leaps and climbs. But I seem to recall him running down a car once.

[Sol M]

Most writers focus on people's combat speed.

While true, they aren't necessarily compartmentalized.

I can buy Cap running at around that speed. The dude is ridiculously faster than a normal human, and normal humans can sprint at up to 25-27 mph. VERY short distance. Cap, though, he can sprint at maximum, amped up Captain America speed for longer because his body doesn't fatigue the same way a normal human's does. So him sprinting 2x as fast as our best and keeping it up for a minute? It's a stretch, but I can buy it.

It's not an issue with him being that fast, actually. I mean, he's way faster and stronger than real world humans.

It's just odd because of having to separate running speed and combat speed to an extent. Odd that a character who should be physically superior to Cap in physical stats can't run faster than him because of a lack of feats, etc.

Shiva's running feats are few and far between, if any. She doesn't 'run'.

True, which is why you said that Shiva could move a foot or so in the time it takes a bullet to cross 100 feet as opposed to Cap's 1.5 feet, I suppose? ^^

As I generally see Shiva as being faster, I found this amusing, that's all.

Batgirl can keep up with Deathstroke, running speed. She has been depicted doing stuff like running forward, beating people up en route, grabbing someone, then running back, all before a knife dropped by the first guy she took out hits the ground. Her followup statue-beating to the bullet-dance has her crossing about 8'-10' before anyone blinks, twitches, or otherwise is anything but a statue.

There's a scene where Bruce and her bump into someone in an apartment - corner apartment. Bruce is in front of Cass. The person they're after hops out the window and onto the ledge, then starts running. In the amount of time it takes Bruce to cross the 5-10' feet to the window, Cass -

1. Runs to the other exerior wall of the room.
2. Goes out THAT window.
3. Runs along the window ledge on that side of the corner of the building, takes the corner, and runs past the window Batman is coming out of.

Note - Bruce still hasn't come out of the window. He's sort of half-way.

Same issue (Batgirl Annual 1), she blitzes all the guiards on an estate, shown as nothing more than vague speedlines as she zips around the estate.

She has also been depicted as running so fast that the wind of her passage literally pulls a woman's hair sideways.

Yeah, she's certainly far faster than Cap over short distances. Much faster, in fact.

On the other hand, can she run a distance like say, crossing 100 feet in less than a second?

Not relevant for this sort of fight, certainly, buuuut...

Peter Parker....he's trickier, because he usually webs his way around, or leaps and climbs. But I seem to recall him running down a car once.

Never heard of it myself, but it would certainly make sense if he could do such a thing...and more.

I'm only saying it because, although it never usually comes up in an Arena fight where the starting distance is too large to cross before a normal human can react, I'm pretty sure the issue of how quickly people like Spiderman can cross the starting distance has come up before.

In such a case, if the character has no explicit running feats, we just generally assume that the person in question can run as fast or faster than real world humans, irrespective of how quick and strong the character is otherwise portrayed as.

[abmccray]

Spider-man can, uh, jump bounce 2 miles in 5 seconds :D

[Sol M]

...

Somehow, Spiderman bouncing along at close to Mach 2 for a couple of miles strikes me as not quite legit. <_<


Hilarious pic though. :D

[Slade]

He was falling at that point, having thrown himself bckward with whatever enhanced speed he had.

Bullet-timing isn't just the ability to move with such speed that you actually clear a little distance while a bullet is in flight. Fairly certain Lady shiva, once moving, could clear a foot or so before a bullet fired from 20' away reached her. Heck, Captain America, if RUNNNING (and he runs slower than his 'combat movement') can move ~1.5 feet in the time it takes a bullet to reach him from twenty feet.

You have to see and react to the bullets as well.

To me, this is more aim dodging - one might argue the first bullet, but Neo is falling backward the rest of the time with the agent adjusting his aim to compensate. And clipping him. Twice.

Again, as bullet-timing feats go, it's lousy. :(

Fair enough. One comment though, shouldn't running speed be equal to combat speed? I mean it's not like flight speed where you don't move a muscle. Cap would have manually think to move one leg in front of the other; there would be multiple muscles in play here.

[Sol M]

Fair enough. One comment though, shouldn't running speed be equal to combat speed? I mean it's not like flight speed where you don't move a muscle. Cap would have manually think to move one leg in front of the other; there would be multiple muscles in play here.

Well, it's not going to increase Caps combat speed, which is already ridiculous. On the other hand, it would basically mean that Shiva, despite being faster than Cap in combat, wouldn't be able to run faster than him.

Basically, if someone's running at the speed of sound, we assume they have reflexes to match. However, if they're capable of reacting to stuff moving at those speeds, but have no feats of running that fast, then we don't assume they can.

[abmccray]

People can also move some limbs faster than/react to others. For instance, swinging your arm to avoid an attack is a faster motion than jumping away to avoid an attack. So running isn't actually useful for a default. on the flip side, some characters have stronger muscles in certain areas than others - ie. stronger leg muscles, which would give them a stronger forward "push" than otherwise, which increases running speed (as they bound as much as run).

[abmccray]

...

Somehow, Spiderman bouncing along at close to Mach 2 for a couple of miles strikes me as not quite legit. <_<


Hilarious pic though. :D

I posted it as a joke, but was thinking about it, and...it would actually kind of match his reaction speed + strength as portrayed, interestingly enough. Machine gun fire goes in the Mach 1 area, so for him to bounce around it means his reactions are that fast. If his "gait" is those long bouncy jumps utilizing his class 10ish strength, I could see him reaching that speed, oddly enough.

[big_adventure]

I posted it as a joke, but was thinking about it, and...it would actually kind of match his reaction speed + strength as portrayed, interestingly enough. Machine gun fire goes in the Mach 1 area, so for him to bounce around it means his reactions are that fast. If his "gait" is those long bouncy jumps utilizing his class 10ish strength, I could see him reaching that speed, oddly enough.

His problem would be aerodynamics and friction - since his jumps are only powered on takeoff, friction would rob him of so much momentum that he'd have to be leeaping at mach 5 or more to maintain mach 2 speeds over a couple of miles.

Oh, and machine-gun fire is way the hell over mach 1. 5.56mm and 7.62 NATO rounds are in the mach 2-3 range, depending on the shells. 7.62 warsaw rounds are slower, but still way over supersonic.