Bendis vs Hickman's Avengers

[Kieran_Frost]

To PupsOfWar for his excellent breakdown of all the stuff that "didn't happen", and to Krisis, for his unbiased and well written breakdown of the 2 titles:

Complete side point: I'm always surprised when I see this gif; since surely (in the film) Kane is clapping at failure, not success?

[Whip Whirlwind]

Complete side point: I'm always surprised when I see this gif; since surely (in the film) Kane is clapping at failure, not success?

Lol true, it's his mistress's godawful opera right? Out of context I feel like it can look like serious approval, but I should probably start using it in context ha

[Aaric Rivad]

I enjoyed Bendis' work. I'm loving Hickman's vision of the Avengers.

To say that "nothing happened" is either being incredibly dismissive, or willfully dense.

[The Black Guardian]

Hickman's Avengers is rapidly becoming my least favourite book. The first three issues were a complete waste and the fourth was too big of a mess to determine how wasteful.

[DeadXMan]

screw continiuty! I make um pop refearances...and stuff vs My continouty is so interlocked even Mark Gruenwald would become crossed eyed.

[The Black Guardian]

Things that didn't happen:

Tripling of the team's membership, including:
-The introduction of important new characters.
-->Captain Universe
-->Smasher
-->Hyperion
-->New Adam
-The reaffirmation of various old favorites and unexpected B-listers.

None of whom were properly introduced until the latest issue, and Hyperion's introduction was extremely weak. The rest don't even count as wallpaper.

The establishment of significant amounts of new cosmological lore, including:
-The Builders
-Universal Systems
-->The Garden
-The Mother-Maker

None of which do anything.

The Initiation of longer plotlines regarding:
-The Origin Bomb sites.
-The Assembling of the Avengers Machine.
-The breakdown of Universal order.

More do-nothings.

General Mayhem:
-The destruction and/or metamorphosis of several major cities.
-Two super-fracases.

Okay, there's that, but there's always that.

Jokes

None.

Thematic Layering regarding:
-Mechanistic vs spontaneous problem-solving
-Problems of Agency in matters of creation and corresponding destruction
-Stagnation vs adaptation
-Dicking around with determinism
-etc.

More do-nothing.

Foreshadowing of important future events, including but not limited to:
-The Fall-and-Rise of Hyperion
-The plot of New Avengers
-The fall of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard
-A major cosmological war
-A White Event

All do-nothings.

[adam.walters]

How?? nothing happened in the first 3 issues. I also feelyou can compare the first 3 issues easily.

Bendis actually had stuff going on, nothing happened here at all. Tell me what happened?? Nothing, like legit nothing happened. So when you say you like this better I cant understand how, unless you are biased aganst Bendis.

and Hickmans avengers is nothing like "classic avengers"

What happened in Hickman's Avengers #1-3:

1. Via flashback, Tony and Steve discuss how the Avengers function now and how that should be changed. (The heroes actually think!) We see that recent events (New Avengers related events) have taken a toll on Steve.

2. Imagery of events to come.

3. Introduction of three new villians with backstory.

4. Introduction of new Avengers. (Not a lot of detail given.)

5. Fight and resolution.

Edit: should have read more of the thread to see this was a lost cause.

[Vic Vega]

It's a bit early in Hickman's tenure to do a fair comparison.

When both Avengers and NA are a year in we will have more of a basis to judge.

[The Black Guardian]

It's a bit early in Hickman's tenure to do a fair comparison.

When both Avengers and NA are a year in we will have more of a basis to judge.

Four damned issues is more than enough. You shouldn't need to spend $100 and wait a year in order to make a "fair judgment."

[poneley]

Four damned issues is more than enough. You shouldn't need to spend $100 and wait a year in order to make a "fair judgment."

Just buy one issue. That's all you need to make an opinion! (That was sarcasm.) We get it, you do not have the patience for Hickman's style of writing and you were not impressed by the first four issues. Here's my point of view: Hickman has earned my trust. His FF run was a very carefully plotted story. I see a similarity with it here. Hickman could write done-in-one issues but most of his FF run was one long story that needed to be digested as a whole in order to really enjoy. You may still not enjoy it but that's his style. I'm seeing that in Avengers. There is a ton of set-up going on. To really understand if Hickman will succeed as a writer on this book you need at least a years worth of issues. That's his style. It sounds like you don't have the patience or are already way too turned off by the initial four.

[Zeroedged]

The "nothing happened" argument is just silly. Now if you didn't enjoy what happened or you just want instant satisfaction on all of the future events that were hinted at, that's completely different.

My vote goes to Hickman.

[Brandon McKinnis]

When did we have a great character moment in 100 issues of Bendis awfulness?

I'll take the raw emotion over Johnny Storm's death in FF over the 8 - 10 deaths Bendis aimlessly threw in in
failed attempts to make his storylines major events.

The Civil War Luke Cage issue was pretty good.

[strathcona]

I am going to have to side with the large majority and say Hickman. Even if nothing happened (which is not true), Hickman has gained my trust with his past work that he will be building up to something. Just a superior writer.

[Brandon McKinnis]

Which one of Bendis' 4 Avengers books are we comparing to Hickman's 2. And are we including NA: Illuminati compared to Hickman's NA?

If it Bendis Avengers to Hickman's Avengers Hickman wins slightly but if we uses NA volume one to Hickman Avengers NA vol one was better. But Hickman's NA so far is better than Bendis' NA...etc.

Long story short: Bendis' Dark Avengers and Hickman's New Avengers are the best.

[Rheged]

Which one of Bendis' 4 Avengers books are we comparing to Hickman's 2. And are we including NA: Illuminati compared to Hickman's NA?

If it Bendis Avengers to Hickman's Avengers Hickman wins slightly but if we uses NA volume one to Hickman Avengers NA vol one was better. But Hickman's NA so far is better than Bendis' NA...etc.

Long story short: Bendis' Dark Avengers and Hickman's New Avengers are the best.

Bendis' Dark Avengers was pretty much appropriating Warren Ellis' excellent Thunderbolts. Bendis' Illuminati, however, was pretty much all his own, and some of his best work, even though he retconned and played havok with continuity.