So... THAT didn't happen in SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN #2. Were you right or wrong?

[Hambone]

By "that" you're referring to "Spidey and MJ--REUNITED" right? Because that didn't happen this issue. Unless you count a date has "unification," in which case they were already "reunited" in Superior Spider-Man #1 or even earlier when they were together at the beginning of ASM #700.

In either case the solicit was wrong.

[Raptor]

Guess I'll be the first to say it.


I was wrong. (The great thing about being a pessimist - being happy to be wrong.)


I figured they'd hook up or if not in that issue would happen sooner or later. I'm a pessimist as i explained and admitted in the Superior Spider-Man #2 thread. That has less to do with the creative team than my own mindset.

I always liked Dan Slott's writing before, but I was very shaken by the new direction of the story and I started a downward spiral of worst case scenario thinking. I lost a little faith, I won't lie.

Just like in the other thread, I'll say thanks to Mr. Slott for renewing my faith in his writing.

I never agreed it would be rape or assumed it would be on panel. I also congratualted Mr. Slott on his sarcasm.

Thanks again Dan Slott.

Pretty sure we'll see Spider-man returning to his status quo... but that and the following statement is for another thread altogether.

I do realize now that this is going to isolate Spidey from his past loves and friends. He'll be a loner again just like he was prior to Big Time. That's the Parker Luck, Chuck.

[Kiryu]

I'm not sorry I voted, even if it was wrong, because the amount of people who said they thought it would be totally fine because MJ didn't know any better was really frightening and enlightening. And it's still a really weird set-up that we're looking for redemption in the guy who murdered MJ's soulmate while trying to rape her, so I'm hoping despite Dan's affection for Otto he gets what's coming to him in the long run.

I am relieved that the writers/editors of Spider-Man didn't try to force a relationship between those two and claim it somehow wasn't rape though. So thanks for coming through there.

[RyanParkerMan]

Yeah, but you're overlooking the obvious. Peter and MJ have been married and stuck with each other through Hell for over twenty years. Peter calling her his 'soulmate' while Marvel keeps cranking out reasons why they can never work just doesn't mean that much by comparison.

So Peter/MJ fans are about as happy as your wife would be if you told her you wanted to see other people on the side, but she's still your favorite.

A married couple going through hell for 20 years? Sounds about right.

It was more like 4 or 5 years in comics time and while I get what you're saying you're missing the point.

In the current continuity, which is extremely close to real continuity, they were together for a long time. They were together for years and years and they went through a lot. MJ was Peter's rock. He loved her so much and that love was so special that he summoned it to crawl out of graves and hold buildings over his head.But Peter screwed up and unmasked. May was shot. MJ was chased. Back in Black might be the darkest moment in Spider-Man history. It was certainly the darkest moment in Peter and Mary Jane's history. Peter remarked that he had no idea how everything would be resolved and uttered "God help me, I'm so lost. God help me".

Things weren't working for them as a couple at this point. Obviously MJ looks bad in OMIT and to a lesser extent OMD. And I think a lot of fan outrage about MJ and her character is warranted. She has been portrayed horribly in certain stories since OMD and even I'm getting a little sick to my stomach with her characterization in Superior.

The point you're missing is that the current brain trust behind Spider-Man doesn't write issues for "marriage" fans. They just don't. They could care less about that group. I think it's kind of wrong to dismiss such a big group but that's a different conversation.

For Peter and MJ fans to actually see MJ proclaim that she's still in love with Peter in 700 and then just two issues later to have Peter do the same. That's pretty significant and raises the romantic drama between the two characters when Peter does get his body back.

[David Walton]

The point you're missing is that the current brain trust behind Spider-Man doesn't write issues for "marriage" fans. They just don't. They could care less about that group. I think it's kind of wrong to dismiss such a big group but that's a different conversation.

How am I missing the point? I know what I'd like to see happen with Peter and MJ and it's not going to for the foreseeable future.

That said, it's not as though a person can't appreciate other aspects of the current status quo. A person can be a Peter/MJ marriage fan as well as a Horizon Labs or SpOck booster, the same way an individual can be a social liberal and fiscal conservative or any number of combinations.

For Peter and MJ fans to actually see MJ proclaim that she's still in love with Peter in 700 and then just two issues later to have Peter do the same. That's pretty significant and raises the romantic drama between the two characters when Peter does get his body back.

It's about as significant as the Peter/MJ moment at the end of Spider-Island, which is just another nice beat that still falls short of what Peter/MJ fans want them to be. I think Slott's a great writer and I enjoy his stuff, but there's no sense pretending I'm happy with his take on MJ to justify what I do like. I'm not inclined to hang my entire enjoyment on Pete and MJ's relationship, but I won't pretend that bread crumbs are steak, either.

[Sighphi]

So? Where did you fall on the issue of the-thing-we-said-that-wasn't-going-to-happen in SSM #2...

...which (no surprise at all) DIDN'T happen in SSM #2?

;-)

http://twitpic.com/bzrfub

The discussion wasnt centered around the event only happening by issue two but if it ever was going to happen while Octopus was in Pete's body but after the ending in issue one with the reveal of Pete's ghost it's pretty obvious that there's going to be little pushing of the envelope in this comic since the ghost is just going to pull that chain to hold Octopus back whenever it's actually needed.

The ghost just destroys any hoopla created by the switch. So unless there is some change soon this books does nothing new compared with the previous stuff.

[stillanerd]

Well, when I made my series of predictions of what I thought would happen in Superior Spider-Man, I stated the following:

Many concerned fans worry that since Doc Ock is now in a relationship with Mary Jane that he may take advantage of her love for Peter to have sex with her, including yours truly. After all, he tried to do exactly that in Amazing Spider-Man #700. But now that’s he’s promised Peter to protect his loved ones and has Peter’s memories of his and MJ’s relationship, he may (hopefully) start to develop second thoughts, perhaps wanting Mary Jane to love him as Doc Ock and not as Peter, only he can’t tell her the truth because he knows she‘ll obviously despise him for killing the man she loved. Maybe Doc Ock will tell MJ that because he “loves her,” he doesn’t want to ruin their “second chance” by taking it slow instead of rushing into something they’ll both regret. And while MJ will find this a rather sweet and romantic gesture on “Peter‘s” part, this will also be the very thing which clues her in that something’s going on with "Peter" aside from him merely "acting strange."

So correct that he wouldn't sleep with her, correct that he'd develop feelings for MJ himself, but wrong about the details and especially about them still being in a relationship and that Doc Ock would actually end the relationship.

Of course, once Ghost Peter showed up, that pretty much was an indicator it wasn't going to happen since, if Ghost Peter can prevent Doc Ock from killing someone, he certainly could be capable of preventing Doc Ock from getting more intimate with MJ. Still doesn't make Doc Ock's attempts to try and sleep with MJ any less creepy or disturbing, however. And technically, couldn't it be argued that...you know? happened to Peter when Doc Ock...you know?

where was masturbation in that book?

Peter doesn't want him touching his body while hes soaping up and singing in the shower.

where was masturbation in that book?

Peter doesnt want him touching his body while hes soaping up and singing in the shower.

Actually, Ghost Peter says "Ugh. Does [Doc Ock] have to keep touching my body?" Which means he did so before he was showering. And given how satisfied and relieved Doc Ock is the next morning after he replayed all of Peter's memories with Mary Jane, it's pretty easy for someone to put two and two together.

But of course, I'm sure those who think Doc Ock was masturbating will be told "Like a Rorschach test, YOU were reading into that scene with whatever baggage YOU brought with you. Any icky/disgusting things that took place...were things that YOUR imagination came up with."

[RyanParkerMan]

How am I missing the point? I know what I'd like to see happen with Peter and MJ and it's not going to for the foreseeable future.

That said, it's not as though a person can't appreciate other aspects of the current status quo. A person can be a Peter/MJ marriage fan as well as a Horizon Labs or SpOck booster, the same way an individual can be a social liberal and fiscal conservative or any number of combinations.



It's about as significant as the Peter/MJ moment at the end of Spider-Island, which is just another nice beat that still falls short of what Peter/MJ fans want them to be. I think Slott's a great writer and I enjoy his stuff, but there's no sense pretending I'm happy with his take on MJ to justify what I do like. I'm not inclined to hang my entire enjoyment on Pete and MJ's relationship, but I won't pretend that bread crumbs are steak, either.

I gotcha. I agree with a lot of that but I don't think Superior #2 gave us bread crumbs like Spider-Island and Ends of the Earth did. I thought Peter calling his ex his soulmate was a bit more than a bread crumb.
I liked the issue but there were definitely aspects I didn't enjoy. The Ock abusing Peter's memories page was too creepy and wrong for me.
I didn't like MJ trying to kiss Spock at the end of the issue. I really thought MJ and Carlie were in on it together when Spock dropped MJ off at her apartment. She realizes something is off with him but she'd kiss him after all the dates and him acting like a weirdo? I think MJ's going to dissapear now for a bit but when she comes back I hope she's portrayed better than what we've seen so far.

[ShaggyB]

I think the poster is referring to the page where Ock rapes Peter's memories of being with Mary Jane. One could certainly interpret that Spock could of been "doing something inappropriate" to Peter's body while he was "reliving" those memories.

I can see Dan and Steve using the same defense they used with MJ and Aunt May. "You're not reading what's on the page and you're bringing your own sick fantasies". The only problem with that is Stegman is going to draw Spock wacking off. Something like that has to be implied.

Look, I liked the issue and I didn't read that scene as anything more than Spock digging into the old memory bank but I did find it way to creepy while I was reading it.

im not seeing where he draws that though? I see spidey swing onto a roof top. land with the classic one arm through the legs to the roof pose. Then I see a shot of ock reliving peter's memories. Then i see him waking up the next day after a great nights sleep and he showers.

[ShaggyB]

Actually, Ghost Peter says "Ugh. Does [Doc Ock] have to keep touching my body?" Which means he did so before he was showering. And given how satisfied and relieved Doc Ock is the next morning after he replayed all of Peter's memories with Mary Jane, it's pretty easy for someone to put two and two together.

No its not. Dude hes taking more than one shower since becoming peter. If you are reading masturbation into suds-ing up ones hair and body based on "keep touching"... thats really on you. I read that as a he had dream sex with mj and it grossed peter out and then he still gets to touch peter's body to have a shower every morning.

But of course, I'm sure those who think Doc Ock was masturbating will be told "Like a Rorschach test, YOU were reading into that scene with whatever baggage YOU brought with you. Any icky/disgusting things that took place...were things that YOUR imagination came up with."

I cant see how you couldnt be seen as bringing that with you. I didnt read it that way until i looked on here at what people were saying.

[stillanerd]

No its not. Dude hes taking more than one shower since becoming peter. If you are reading masturbation into suds-ing up ones hair and body based on "keep touching"... thats really on you. I read that as a he had dream sex with mj and it grossed peter out and then he still gets to touch peter's body to have a shower every morning.

Oh I understand there was nothing more than showering going on while Doc Ock was showering, Shaggy. That's not what I was saying. I'm saying the inference is that Doc Ock may have been masturbating while he was recalling all the "sexy times" Peter had with Mary Jane. Hence why Peter's disgusted "Does he have to keep touching my body?"

I cant see how you couldnt be seen as bringing that with you. I didnt read it that way until i looked on here at what people were saying.

Well that's part of the trick. It's not explicit but there's enough there for readers to properly fill in the blanks if they so choose.

[CyberHubbs]

Otto raped Peter!

[CyberHubbs]

The discussion wasnt centered around the event only happening by issue two but if it ever was going to happen while Octopus was in Pete's body but after the ending in issue one with the reveal of Pete's ghost it's pretty obvious that there's going to be little pushing of the envelope in this comic since the ghost is just going to pull that chain to hold Octopus back whenever it's actually needed.

The ghost just destroys any hoopla created by the switch. So unless there is some change soon this books does nothing new compared with the previous stuff.

Yeah, you'd have to somehow remove Peter's ghost from the equation. Maybe using some kind of ghost trap...thing. But where would one find something like that?

[stillanerd]

Yeah, you'd have to somehow remove Peter's ghost from the equation. Maybe using some kind of ghost trap...thing. But where would one find something like that?

Uatu Jackson. He said he invented a ghost-trapping device in Avenging Spider-Man #15.1, after all. Foreshadowing?

[CyberHubbs]

Would definitely say so.

And then it'll be Otto on his own, no leash. We'll see how far he's come then.