Harper Row: Fan Favourite

[HXHAlex]

I don't think there was ever such a statement though, so your gripe really is, "They're using character x but I'd like it more if they were using character y." which is a pretty poor reason to view a new character negatively.

I swear DC said something Tim would be leading the Titans to distance him from the family. And I believe the reasoning for having Tim having been Red Robin from the start was to make it so there hadn't been so many robins in such a short span of years. You are correct though they never said anything about ignoring Cass and Steph due to the bat-family being overcrowded, I just suspect that's a reason for keeping them gone for now

I'll try and be more open minded towards Harper

[The Greatest Hero]

All kinds of bullying happens. Him being gay was all there was to him. If he wasn't getting bullied for being gay, he was talking about how cute Tim Drake is or some other allusion to him being gay. I think the reader grasped the concept. That was ALL there was to his character, it felt preachy in a sort of "BATMAN SAYS LEAVE GAYS ALONE" way

Any message can be overdone to a point of it being annoying, including positive messages like the one the comic gave about not bullying

If he was being bullied for some other reason, I have a feeling you wouldn't be complaining about it.

[Quinnhop]

Yeah, that would be sweet.

I thought it was where he was headed at first, but so far it isn't.

I could very much get behind this idea of mobile Oracle, even though part of me is angry at myself for saying that. I love what Barbara was as Oracle, a true inspiration to many including myself, but crippling another character just to get a similar effect would be even worse than retconning Barbara out of the wheelchair

I completely agree. And while Proxy could do the job, she's not really cemented in the new continuity. Also, I feel like it might even undermine everything Barbara/Oracle stood for to just replace her with another character in the exact same situation. There are plenty of other ways to write a wheelchair-bound superhero. They shouldn't all be rehashes of Oracle.

Your ideas, I like them.

Damn, now I can't think of Harper as anything but DC's Lisbeth/Street-Oracle...

Thanks. I just think it would be a great way to give Batman another ally without it being a Robin or Batgirl. But also with just as much potential.

[The Man From Room X]

The main draw of Oracle was that she was 1) Barbara Gordon 2) A genius hacker.

You can't shove the role of Oracle onto some random chick picked off the street.

[HXHAlex]

If he was being bullied for some other reason, I have a feeling you wouldn't be complaining about it.

Oh when a derogatory term used to insult homosexuals was cut into his hair, I got the impression he was being bullied for being gay


Edit: LOL I thought you said HE WAS BULLIED FOR ANOTHER REASON, never mind disregard that comment ^^

And your comment isn't true. If a girl was being bullied for her decision to keep a baby from an accidental pregnancy from someone she doesn't want to have a son with, and the whole issue she was bullied for that decision rather than opting for an abortion, giving this girl a seemingly admirable appearance I'd be annoyed by that as well. Anything that feels like preachy propaganda gets on my nerves

Or if this were some christian guy being bullied by atheists for being christian I'd also dislike that as well

Edit 2: Actually you are partially correct. I mean if ^^^^ All of those scenarios of bullying are annoying, what type of bullying scenario wouldn't annoy me? I suppose it was just poor writing and overdoing it. It was like every panel her brother was in needed some allusion to him being homosexual. It felt like really bad writing, like it was the only thing that made him him. And it shouldn't. Being gay is normal, just like being heterosexual. So you'd think a reference to him being gay once or twice, then the bullying scene would have got the message across better than how it was overdone. Like every scene was "oh that guys is cute" "hey you need to go let me know if Tim Drake is cute"

It was terrible writing

[GoldStarz]

I completely agree. And while Proxy could do the job, she's not really cemented in the new continuity. Also, I feel like it might even undermine everything Barbara/Oracle stood for to just replace her with another character in the exact same situation. There are plenty of other ways to write a wheelchair-bound superhero. They shouldn't all be rehashes of Oracle.

But remember the last time we saw Proxy she was Nanda Parbat for some spiritual healing so that she could finally take the last steps (no pun intended) into being able to walk again. I don't see why they couldn't just give her to us like that. Just coming back from spiritual enlightenment after a personal tragedy.

[Quinnhop]

The main draw of Oracle was that she was 1) Barbara Gordon 2) A genius hacker.

You can't shove the role of Oracle onto some random chick picked off the street.

It wouldn't be the same Oracle, obv. This is an Oracle of Gotham. A more practical, street-level Oracle. The engineering genius to Oracle's hacking genius. It wouldn't be as woahmygod amazing, but they would be more believable and in a lot of ways equally useful for Bruce. He's the Prince looking down on the kingdom from his high castle and she's the streetwise grid-mapper. He knows the city from above, and she knows the city from below. Not to take away from Bruce's knowledge of the city, but she would certainly be a more interesting addition to his allies than another run-in-the-mill middle class librarian.







Plus we'd get to see her grow into the god-tier Oracle that Barbara was.

But remember the last time we saw Proxy she was Nanda Parbat for some spiritual healing so that she could finally take the last steps (no pun intended) into being able to walk again. I don't see why they couldn't just give her to us like that. Just coming back from spiritual enlightenment after a personal tragedy.

Yeah but her story was tied into the Teen Titans and Steph-Batgirl--one of which has been retconned away, the other of which has been entirely ignored. If they can't even bother to reintroduce Steph, I doubt they'd want to go near Proxy.

[Mr. Holmes]

It wouldn't be the same Oracle, obv. This is an Oracle of Gotham. A more practical, street-level Oracle. The engineering genius to Oracle's hacking genius. It wouldn't be as woahmygod amazing, but they would be more believable and in a lot of ways equally useful for Bruce. He's the Prince looking down on the kingdom from his high castle and she's the streetwise grid-mapper. He knows the city from above, and she knows the city from below. Not to take away from Bruce's knowledge of the city, but she would certainly be a more interesting addition to his allies than another run-in-the-mill middle class librarian.

Eh that adds nothing that Batman can't do. I mean I've seen the king analogy for Batman before (especially with Snyder beating us to death with it) but it doesn't translate perfectly because ultimately Batman does go out there and do dirty work. I'm pretty sure I've read a story that he's memorized the whole city.

[Quinnhop]

Eh that adds nothing that Batman can't do. I mean I've seen the king analogy for Batman before (especially with Snyder beating us to death with it) but it doesn't translate perfectly because ultimately Batman does go out there and do dirty work. I'm pretty sure I've read a story that he's memorized the whole city.

I know, I know, it's more symbolic. The idea of an Oracle that isn't a master of computer grids but the grids of Gotham. She can grow into everything else. I just miss Oracle and think mixing the basic concept with a Lisbeth Salandar-style hacker using Harper Row (since visually she's already there) could be fun. Certainly more fun than Harper as another Robin.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Harper, but if she's going to stick around, that's the direction I'd like to see them go with her.

[Conway]

Eh that adds nothing that Batman can't do. I mean I've seen the king analogy for Batman before (especially with Snyder beating us to death with it) but it doesn't translate perfectly because ultimately Batman does go out there and do dirty work. I'm pretty sure I've read a story that he's memorized the whole city.

Snyder had him studying a model of the city with holographic representations of future building projects at least twice in CotO. It was also shown a few posts before that he built an entire electrical grid himself under the city. His "Oracle" needs are all taken care of between himself, Alfred, Lucius, Gordon, and the Bat-Computer. Like you said it adds nothing.

[Quinnhop]

I'm also still pulling for her to be the Joker's daughter.

[king of hybrids]

I'm also still pulling for her to be the Joker's daughter.

oh great, yet another supervillain's daughter serving as an ally/sidekick of batman.

though Joker is a step up from Shiva and cluemaster (yes, i went there)

also, doesn't Joker having children (who he pretty much abused judging by Harper's statements) give him too much of a definitive backstory?