Avengers #4 *Spoilers*

[XPac]

Given dat Hyperion is not an energy manipulator & does not have any force-field capabilities den hw in heaven or hell did he hold 2 universes apart?.....with his bare hands? ROFL! LOL!

Which means Hyperion simplye held 2 universes just abt 2 metres apart.....literally. LOL!

Wudnt his hands hv sunk in2 d ground of both earths due 2 d incredibly immense opposing forces of d impending collision? Hw funny is dat?

Not d h8 on JH bcuz we/SZ luv his work but dammit dat scene is easily or @ least arguably amongst Marvel's top 10 worst fails.

Ultimately that's the problem with Super Men clones... you inevitably get Super Man scale feats, which often defy common sense physics.

That said, I did actually think it was kind of a cool scene. A guy hopelessly trying and failing to literally hold two coliding world apart with his bare hands because that's all he can do ... I don't entirely buy the physics of it either, but the overall package I think did sell me on the character. I found the whole thing kinda moving to be honest.

[celticguy]

No, he survived the universes collapsing, and floated around in nothingness, and was plucked out of that.





Fraction's Defenders never happened. Cosmic reset.

Ok I got nothing. Well Dr. Strange did just get his job back he might be busy checking mystic portals and other magic type stuff.

[jackolover]

Well he might be off doing Defenders at this point. the events of NA would seem to be after Avengers first arc.

If we look at the ads in NA #1 we see Iron Man #6 and Fearless Defenders #1 come after this, but they have not been mentioned in any other books yet. So that puts NA#1 after the Avengers arc on Mars. How would that affect the storyline? It would mean Steve's Dream was a premonition instead of a suppressed memory, and that the things that happened with Hyperion are common knowledge already to the Avengers, because Hyperian may have told them about the 2 Universes colliding. It just means the Avengers did nothing until the Black Panther had this run in with the Incursion and the black dress shiela blew it up. It's possible?

[erwinrafael]

Is this link to Amazon a spoiler to future events?

http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Volum.../dp/0785168249

[PupsOfWar]

Ultimately that's the problem with Super Men clones... you inevitably get Super Man scale feats, which often defy common sense physics.

I don't think it is a problem, in that 99% of stuff in superhero comics defies common-sense physics.

Often people make these distinctions between which of these fantastical, impossible things are more fantastical and impossible, and it confuses me.

Is this link to Amazon a spoiler to future events?

http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-Volum.../dp/0785168249

nothing we couldn't have gotten from the solicits that have been released.

[Wren]

I don't think it is a problem, in that 99% of stuff in superhero comics defies common-sense physics.

Pretty much this... just surrender all knowledge of any branch of science and technology.

Anyway I'm loving the Hickman Avengers. Do I think there's better characters he could have chosen than these new guys + all-stars? Yes. Was Captain Universe just saving the day like that a copout? Probably. But actually he's made Hyperion interesting and given him a personality, and he writes decent Roberto + Sam given that they've only had 1 panel of speech, so... I'm on-board.

The Avengers are dealing with massive universe-wide threats that feel like massive universe-wide / planet-wide threats! I'm happy.

This is kind of reminds me of Remender's X-Force (Dark Angel Saga)... but that's not awful either. Ex Nihilo + Abyss are cool, too.

[Joe Acro]

If we look at the ads in NA #1 we see Iron Man #6 and Fearless Defenders #1 come after this, but they have not been mentioned in any other books yet. So that puts NA#1 after the Avengers arc on Mars. How would that affect the storyline? It would mean Steve's Dream was a premonition instead of a suppressed memory, and that the things that happened with Hyperion are common knowledge already to the Avengers, because Hyperian may have told them about the 2 Universes colliding. It just means the Avengers did nothing until the Black Panther had this run in with the Incursion and the black dress shiela blew it up. It's possible?

Well, in theory, the Mars arc as a whole can't happen on the same day. They spent a bit of time gathering the team. (Unclear how long, really, or when it even started.) So it's possibly the New Avengers issues we've seen so far take place during that recruitment period. (Cap and Iron Man are traveling about anyway--what's one additional stop in Wakanda?)

[Nur]

Recent reads of NA#3 has one of the ending scene images matching what Cap was seeing in his troubled dreams in Avengers #1 so it seems that Avengers #1 occurs after New Avengers #3. That's how I took the matching imagery to mean.

Very nice touch if so.. immensely enjoying the slight blending of these two titles.

[jackolover]

My question about the Avengers now is this. What was the point of the Avengers vs X-Men war if the Avengers don't use the powerful mutants in one of their backup teams? Where are Franklyn and Wanda in all this? Are the X-Men too tied up in Uncanny Avengers to not be available for the Incursion? As far as I can tell, the Avengers have just kept their own boys club to themselves and still left the mutants in their little pocket of the Earth.

We have had Marvel NOW for about 3 months and I can't see the development I expected in the relationship between the Avengers and the X-Men. The mutants should have been all over this thing on Mars. Why is Hickman ignoring the mutants? Why is Marvel continuing with the separation of the two franchises? It's like AVX was just an excuse to shuffle the creative teams around by getting them to write overlap franchises, getting ready for Marvel NOW, but no real difference has occurred.

[XPac]

My question about the Avengers now is this. What was the point of the Avengers vs X-Men war if the Avengers don't use the powerful mutants in one of their backup teams? Where are Franklyn and Wanda in all this? Are the X-Men too tied up in Uncanny Avengers to not be available for the Incursion? As far as I can tell, the Avengers have just kept their own boys club to themselves and still left the mutants in their little pocket of the Earth.

We have had Marvel NOW for about 3 months and I can't see the development I expected in the relationship between the Avengers and the X-Men. The mutants should have been all over this thing on Mars. Why is Hickman ignoring the mutants? Why is Marvel continuing with the separation of the two franchises? It's like AVX was just an excuse to shuffle the creative teams around by getting them to write overlap franchises, getting ready for Marvel NOW, but no real difference has occurred.

At this point no one knows about the incursions except the Illuminati, and they're keeping it a secret. So people like Wanda and Franklin are off the board.

It's possible down the line they might end up involved though. This could in theory evolve into some sort of company wide thing. But it's not there at this point.

But as far as them not being on Mars... I don't think they need to bring in every X-Men and ever Avenger to every mission. They had more than enough to handle the mars situation. If something bigger arises (and it would need to be pretty darn big considering how powerful the current Avengers line up is), then certainly getting more help is something to consider.

[jackolover]

At this point no one knows about the incursions except the Illuminati, and they're keeping it a secret. So people like Wanda and Franklin are off the board.

It's possible down the line they might end up involved though. This could in theory evolve into some sort of company wide thing. But it's not there at this point.

But as far as them not being on Mars... I don't think they need to bring in every X-Men and ever Avenger to every mission. They had more than enough to handle the mars situation. If something bigger arises (and it would need to be pretty darn big considering how powerful the current Avengers line up is), then certainly getting more help is something to consider.

Desperate times need desperate measures. If it becomes necessary, why not ask Doom to power up Wanda and get her to simply wish the incursion goes away and stays there? Reed Richards tells his son, not to make anymore pocket universes. But what good is this if the universe you live in dies? Reed mentions he would do anything to save his family. Franky is anything. I just wonder when the FF leave now and vanish into the past? Is it after NA?

Both the Heroic Age Avengers Kang future war with Ultron, and, the older Val and Franky storylines, missed the Incursion as being a threat in the Heroic Age. Maybe it won't be all that vital as we think?

[spursevere]

My question about the Avengers now is this. What was the point of the Avengers vs X-Men war if the Avengers don't use the powerful mutants in one of their backup teams? Where are Franklyn and Wanda in all this? Are the X-Men too tied up in Uncanny Avengers to not be available for the Incursion? As far as I can tell, the Avengers have just kept their own boys club to themselves and still left the mutants in their little pocket of the Earth.

We have had Marvel NOW for about 3 months and I can't see the development I expected in the relationship between the Avengers and the X-Men. The mutants should have been all over this thing on Mars. Why is Hickman ignoring the mutants? Why is Marvel continuing with the separation of the two franchises? It's like AVX was just an excuse to shuffle the creative teams around by getting them to write overlap franchises, getting ready for Marvel NOW, but no real difference has occurred.

Are you serious?

Bobby and Cannonball are already on the team. So is Eden Fesi. Wolverine. Falcon (maybe).

There's another sub-avengers team with Wolverine, Wanda and Rogue battling against the Red skull. The aftermath of Avengers vs X-men is the main story in Uncanny Avengers. It is underwhelming, for me, but you can't expect Hickman and Remender to tell the same story.

The cast is already too big with 18. What did you expect? 340 mutants and the avengers going to mars? Why isn't any comic like that. Why doesn't every hero in Marvel turn up during every world threatening event. Why doesn't Franklin just comes and wish away every conceivable threat ever in every comic. Where is that boy? Why doesn't he save us all. Would make a lovely comic to read, that.

As for the illuminati, it's been established that professor x would have been there, if he weren't dead. They already have a mutant, Namor. And they'll be recruiting beast to take up professor x's place.

Mutants are already on-board. You can see how the public reacts to the mutants in Uncanny Avengers, All New X-Men, and the upcoming Uncanny X-Men. That's plenty, for me.

Let Hickman tell his story.

[jackolover]

Are you serious?

Bobby and Cannonball are already on the team. So is Eden Fesi. Wolverine. Falcon (maybe).

There's another sub-avengers team with Wolverine, Wanda and Rogue battling against the Red skull. The aftermath of Avengers vs X-men is the main story in Uncanny Avengers. It is underwhelming, for me, but you can't expect Hickman and Remender to tell the same story.

The cast is already too big with 18. What did you expect? 340 mutants and the avengers going to mars? Why isn't any comic like that. Why doesn't every hero in Marvel turn up during every world threatening event. Why doesn't Franklin just comes and wish away every conceivable threat ever in every comic. Where is that boy? Why doesn't he save us all. Would make a lovely comic to read, that.

As for the illuminati, it's been established that professor x would have been there, if he weren't dead. They already have a mutant, Namor. And they'll be recruiting beast to take up professor x's place.

Mutants are already on-board. You can see how the public reacts to the mutants in Uncanny Avengers, All New X-Men, and the upcoming Uncanny X-Men. That's plenty, for me.

Let Hickman tell his story.

To me, if you have the Mutants and the Inhumans, why go cosmic? They are right there. Just call them up and job done. Why concern yourself with these unknowns all of a sudden? Just throw masses of mutants at anything and it goes away. Hell, just get one of the healer kids, and it takes all your power out with a touch.

But I understand what Hickman is doing. He is taking the next step in Avengers evolution, he's just using the technique of strange mysterious characters who will be gradually revealed. I just don't know why Hickman just doesn't wait for Bendis to make the GoTG arrive?

Edit . Now that we have seen the effects of New Avengers #3 it becomes a little more clear exactly why Tony had to go cosmic with the Avengers.