Avengers #4 *Spoilers*

[pepper]

I must say, this is the most intelligent Avengers review/spoiler thread I've read in a while. Well done Hickman!

This just feels far too impersonal and detached to really grip me in any satisfying way.

I know what you mean. That's why I'm iffy on the large cast.

Have you tried New Avengers yet? It has a better balance of plot, themes and character work IMO.

[Van Custo]

I don't understand the complaints about Hyperion being too powerful and the Sentry comparisons. He hasn't done anything yet that's "too powerful", nor is he a lunatic, yet. He seems basically around the same power level as Gladiator, Blue Marvel, Thor, Hulk, etc.

[Juggernaut Punch]

I don't understand the complaints about Hyperion being too powerful and the Sentry comparisons. He hasn't done anything yet that's "too powerful", nor is he a lunatic, yet. He seems basically around the same power level as Gladiator, Blue Marvel, Thor, Hulk, etc.

He held apart two colliding universes and survived their destruction, that's not too powerful?

I'm fine with Hyperion and how strong he is, but he is ridiculously strong.

[jackolover]

I seriously doubt that. The Illuminati is unlikely to be celebrating together. Read the Second Issue, T'Challa and Reed state that either the problem cannot be fixed or there is an active cause. Stopping one incursion is not going to cause them to celebrate.

It's interesting because at the start of Avengers there doesn't appear to be any anxiety in Cap or Iron Man,who were part of the Illuminati, so my guess, the gems fixed the Incursion.

[jpbl1976]

In regards to the story, I thought it was fine. Hickman loves his grandiose narration, and I'm pretty okay with it too, though I think he went a bit overboard with "There were two Hyperions". I understand the intent and technique, but...well, it can be over used to the point of annoyance.

And yet, still, this is the best Avengers thing in years. :)

He actually does something similar (though not with the same framing) in Manhattan Projects (seriously, that book needs more press) with "Red" and "Blue" Oppenheimer. I guess, being used to Hickman's style, I don't find it distracting but I can see why you would think that.

Also, I agree with your assertion: this is the best Avengers in years!

[rsreed13]

It's interesting because at the start of Avengers there doesn't appear to be any anxiety in Cap or Iron Man,who were part of the Illuminati, so my guess, the gems fixed the Incursion.

I doubt it. Steve's having nightmares about the Illuminati at the start of Avengers #1, and it seems like Tony's hiding stuff from him when he says that Dr. Strange is busy. They may have thought they ended it, but there's no evidence that the issue is actually resolved by Avengers #1.

[SilverZeal]

He held apart two colliding universes and survived their destruction, that's not too powerful?

Exactly...which is our instant dislike of d xcter.

I'm fine with Hyperion and how strong he is, but he is ridiculously strong.

Unnecessarily strong...he's not a god & not even a cosmic being but he cud do such a feat?

We all already know dat dis Hyperion is d resident deux-ex-machina 4 Hickman & expect hyper-PIS reasons explaining Hyperions absence when he is needed by d team..

[carloshll726]

How did Hyperion join the Avengers?

[Juggernaut Punch]

How did Hyperion join the Avengers?

That wasn't properly explained to be honest. The Avengers saved him from AIM captivity and recruited him off-panel.

[Van Custo]

He held apart two colliding universes and survived their destruction, that's not too powerful?

I'm fine with Hyperion and how strong he is, but he is ridiculously strong.

He did not hold apart two Universes, but two worlds. Planets. A second world appeared in the sky. That's what the caption says and what is drawn. And secondly, he failed to stop them, the worlds collapsed and the "cascading energy" from that collapse destroyed the two universes.

Now yes, holding apart two wolds even for a short time is very impressive and you could argue too powerful, but I doubt he will ever be doing things like that regularly in the book. It just seems like a very dramatic and vague origin story. There's no reason to assume Hulk or Thor or Surfer couldn't do the same when they're at their maximum.

[Juggernaut Punch]

He did not hold apart two Universes, but two worlds. Planets. A second world appeared in the sky. That's what the caption says and what is drawn. And secondly, he failed to stop them, the worlds collapsed and the "cascading energy" from that collapse destroyed the two universes.

Now yes, holding apart two wolds even for a short time is very impressive and you could argue too powerful, but I doubt he will ever be doing things like that regularly in the book. It just seems like a very dramatic and vague origin story. There's no reason to assume Hulk or Thor or Surfer couldn't do the same when they're at their maximum.

The two universes are the ones that are colliding, with the two Earths as the points, if he's holding the two Earth's apart, he's holding the two universes apart.

And yeah, I doubt it'll come up all that often in the books.

[Joe Acro]

I doubt it. Steve's having nightmares about the Illuminati at the start of Avengers #1, and it seems like Tony's hiding stuff from him when he says that Dr. Strange is busy.

Oh, I don't know. Steve might be having premonitions, not nightmares, and Strange might legitimately be busy.

Let's say NA was before Avengers. Then the Infinity Gems have already stopped the effect of the Incursion, and a secondary reaction to the initial solution is what is going on in the Avengers. The illuminati are all sitting back drinking martinis and congratulating themselves on a wonderful job well done, while the Avengers are getting the fallout.

I don't think it can, feasibly, just given the nature of how Hickman laid out the formation. Seemed to take place over multiple days. Before the stuff on Mars, sure, but before the Tony/Steve scene in the tower? Not so sure.

That said, there's nothing so far that suggests the Illuminati will accomplish anything. I'm not sure how these new characters or the destruction they've caused would be related to the incursion(s).

[Melab]

He held apart two colliding universes and survived their destruction, that's not too powerful?

I'm fine with Hyperion and how strong he is, but he is ridiculously strong.

Coulda just been the Earths. Seriously, why is are universes' destructions contingent upon their respective Earths contacting each other? I mean these two universes were already occupying the same space. Besides how can strength keep two universes apart?

[Rheged]

Coulda just been the Earths. Seriously, why is are universes' destructions contingent upon their respective Earths contacting each other? I mean these two universes were already occupying the same space. Besides how can strength keep two universes apart?

That's how it's set up in New Avengers.

[Juggernaut Punch]

Coulda just been the Earths. Seriously, why is are universes' destructions contingent upon their respective Earths contacting each other? I mean these two universes were already occupying the same space. Besides how can strength keep two universes apart?

Like Rheged said, that's how New Avengers set it up. Earth is the point where the universes are colliding. The two universes weren't occupying the same space, only the Earth's were, as Reed explains it :

"There is a very short period of harmonic alignment, which is what allows the two Earths to exist in the same space"

This lasts for eight hour, then both Earths smash together and both universes are wiped out, unless one Earth is destroyed which spares both universes.

And Hyperion can hold them apart because comicbook science. It's just like how having a gamma bomb exploding in close proximity to you makes you turn into a giant green monster with infinity strength, or being bitten by a radioactive spider gives you superpowers etc.