Superman #16 Discussion/Spoilers

[Frank Fournier]

Was Supergirl out cold after that?

[adkal]

Was Supergirl out cold after that?

She was groggy as H'El helped her up, after he'd...moved the Fortress...from around the others...

[ascended]

Another issue, another pleasant surprise.

Lobdell isnt the best writer in the industry, but with this title its easy to forgive. So okay, his dialogue *can* be pretty stiff, exposition painful to read, his plots thin and his pacing poorly executed. So what? He brings such a sense of energy and fun to this title, these nitpicks dont matter. And the things he's weak with, he still manages to make serviceable.

If nothing else, he is bringing something the Superman line has largely been lacking since Pre-Crisis; scope. The Bryne era and afterwards downplayed the "limitless power" aspect of Superman and his stories in favor of power levels and Metropolis-based events that were a little easier to swallow. And Lobdell, man, this guy has the balls to go back to that Silver Age concept, and go really big and crazy. Dude gets props for that if nothing else. It takes a special kind of writer to come up with stuff this big and pull it off. So far, Lobdell is.

That, combined with the sheer force of enjoyment and love you can feel from the pages, makes this the best run this title has seen since the reboot.

I mean, these events are certainly on a cosmic scale rivaling anything we've seen since Imperiex over a decade ago. The destruction of an entire solar system, used to fuel time manipulation, with a cosmic entity on par with Galactus (seemingly) watching and a time jumping return to Krypton mixed in as well? And H'el himself looks like he just might be on a Silver Surfer level of power.

This beats the hell out of seeing Clark fight Metallo in Metropolis for the billionth time.

I stopped reading Superboy at the beginning of this crossover, and I dont read Supergirl. And while I can see how the complaints about the slow moving story are completely valid (isnt this exactly what was going on last month? No progress has been made yet? Come on!) it still seems better than the Culling, at least to my (admittedly limited) point of view. I still think this story could and should have been limited to the Superman title alone. I still think a big event was a terrible way to start off his run. I still think Lobdell should just avoid big events completely, actually. And his technical skill is still very lacking. But despite all that, I dont care. I have really enjoyed the last few issues since he came on, his take on Lex, his new status quo for Clark at work, all of it. Very creative, very fun, very big. And fun is what really matters here.

Rocafort, of course, is simply amazing.

[OldSchoolfan]

I don't see how it can be possibly Morrison's fault, when H'El is lying through his teeth. I just don't get how one can misunderstand that. H'El. Is. Not. Telling. The Truth (willingly or not).
Wether it's because he understood Morrison or not, Lobdel is going with the Council not believing Jor El. I mean, just check Superman 0. Not only Jor El has lost all the datas that could prove it, not only does most of the Council think of him as an unsufferable genius, but a group of extremists (who apparently want to cover the truth) murdered his mentor (and only ally in the Council), exploded his lab, and almost murdered him and his wife. Considering all that, the idea that H'El and Jor El could possibly have publically petitionned the launch of an experimental rocketship is......extremely unlikely. And Morrison has nothing to do with it.

As usual, a well thought out response and one that I can pretty much agree with...Supergirl is getting manipulated/fooled.

Morrison only has something to do with it because he is the author of the backstory of this character....so yeah, indirectly he has a lot to do with it. The original poster was making the point that it could be Lobdell's fault for not checking and I was simply pointing out that it might be Morrison's fault for not making it clear. Which has been one of my complaints these last 18 issues.

[Mr. Holmes]

If it wasn't clear, I don't think Conway would be so quick to point out a perceived inconsistency.

Anyway Lobdell gushes a lot about Morrison's Action run (or Morrison in general - see NOWHERE and Danny the Street in Teen Titans), so I doubt there's really anything to worry about in that aspect.

[Conway]

If it wasn't clear, I don't think Conway would be so quick to point out a perceived inconsistency.

Anyway Lobdell gushes a lot about Morrison's Action run (or Morrison in general - see NOWHERE and Danny the Street in Teen Titans), so I doubt there's really anything to worry about in that aspect.

Auguste has made a decent argument, and when I read it again I have to think it's H'el's personal delusion, because they have referenced other AC stories. I just think Lobdell makes it hard to like his stuff sometimes. This Superman run has been pretty good, and I still find myself annoyed.

[Mr. Holmes]

Oh yeah his writing is flawed, don't get me wrong. I just mean that I'm not worried about inconsistencies with Morrison's Action.

[robcastor729]

Ok I'm really starting to hate Supergirl. This was good but I'm starting to get bored with the story. It kinda feels like it has been drawn out

[Mr. Holmes]

It feels drawn out if you read all the books, and not to mention uneven. It reads much beter if you just stick to Superman.

[Auguste Dupin]

It feels drawn out if you read all the books, and not to mention uneven. It reads much beter if you just stick to Superman.

Yeah, I mean, I'm reading Supergirl, but you miss surprinsingly little if you just sitck to Superman.
I guess a few issues of the other titles here and there makes the thing a little more ....natural, but still.

[Tra-EL]

Yeah, I mean, I'm reading Supergirl, but you miss surprinsingly little if you just sitck to Superman.
I guess a few issues of the other titles here and there makes the thing a little more ....natural, but still.

Pretty much. With a few character development technique's here or there, the Superboy or Supergirl titles have been treading-water into Superman. This was about the 3rd issue in a row with the JL still in the Fortress, Superman and Superboy clashing, H'EL and Kara just standing there waiting and the Oracle floating around in space for the finale. You won't miss anything if you just stick to Supes but I still like reading other titles just encase.

[Self-DCeit]

Lobdell isnt the best writer in the industry, but with this title its easy to forgive. So okay, his dialogue *can* be pretty stiff, exposition painful to read, his plots thin and his pacing poorly executed. So what? He brings such a sense of energy and fun to this title, these nitpicks dont matter. And the things he's weak with, he still manages to make serviceable.
If nothing else, he is bringing something the Superman line has largely been lacking since Pre-Crisis; scope. The Bryne era and afterwards downplayed the "limitless power" aspect of Superman and his stories in favor of power levels and Metropolis-based events that were a little easier to swallow. And Lobdell, man, this guy has the balls to go back to that Silver Age concept, and go really big and crazy. Dude gets props for that if nothing else. It takes a special kind of writer to come up with stuff this big and pull it off. So far, Lobdell is.

I'm waiting for the crossover to end before reading it in a sitting, but this is encouraging. Thank you for sharing your insight.

[Aquacatlungfish]

Decent issue. H'El has more of a personality now and this was fun but the dialogue is pretty bad. Interested in Oracle.

Supergirl's currently my favorite too.

It's okay but it's no World's Finest

[Tra-EL]

The only thing that really disconnects the dialog is Superboy's campy lines, Wonder Woman's pointless one-liners and Lobdell's 3rd person-view. "His name is Kal-El. He eats fruity-pebbles for breakfast." Other than those nitpicks, I like this run. Pretty cool and exciting things in development.

[thepenguin]

Why are people so hard on poor Supergirl? I see her pov. Granted she is annoying. She is supposed to be right now but the poor girl lost her whole Planet. Least she did not come a dictator like Supercrybaby cousin in other stories. Or maybe she will.