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  1. #1
    About that, I lied. The Transient Guest's Avatar
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    Default How powerful is someone that can create?

    Most powers come from matter manipulation, energy transfusion, that sorta stuff.

    But you need power to have power. And you need matter to manipulate it.

    But what if the power you need to have to power the power I'm talking about is the ability to spontaneously create stuff?

    Is matter creation guy more powerful than matter manipulation man?
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  2. #2
    Archnemesis of Reason FarBeyondC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Transient Guest View Post
    Most powers come from matter manipulation, energy transfusion, that sorta stuff.

    But you need power to have power. And you need matter to manipulate it.

    But what if the power you need to have to power the power I'm talking about is the ability to spontaneously create stuff?

    Is matter creation guy more powerful than matter manipulation man?
    Unless matter manipulation guy is ludicrously inefficient, creation of (non-fictitious) matter should always require more energy than needed to manipulate or destroy said matter. So from the standpoint of who should have more energy / power to throw around, matter creation guy is superior.
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  3. #3
    DOOM DEMANDS MORE NACHOS!
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    Spoken as someone who doesn't have small children, I see.

    Because small kids create insane amounts of matter. Types of matter that doesn't make them superior.

    Oh, to actually address the Rumble, well, it kinda depends on the details of creation. If all you can create is unformed silica or carbon, you're really not all that useful.

    If you can, OTOH, create something valuable/useful/efficient, you''re doing MUCH better in life.

    If you could, for example, cleanly create all the, say, neodymium and other REE's that you want, you'd take over supplies to the entire technology industry. You'd crush China's current hold on this and start making a dollar or more per phone or tablet sold on earth, to say nothing about all of the other electronics which would come to depend on you. And you'd clean the environment at the same time, since there would no longer be a need for harmful mining and ultra-harmful refining. Granted, you'd probably get assassinated inside a week, but that's the business, sweetheart.
    Last edited by big_adventure; 01-29-2013 at 12:48 PM.

  4. #4
    Your Ice Cream Man Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    From a functional standpoint, it wouldn't matter that much. Sophisticated enough matter manipulation might as well be matter creation. The big exception is functioning in a vacuum, obviously.

  5. #5
    Archnemesis of Reason FarBeyondC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Spoken as someone who doesn't have small children, I see.

    Because small kids create insane amounts of matter. Types of matter that doesn't make them superior.
    I may not have any children, but I've babysit enough of them (six at one time at one point and five on many occasions) to know all I ever want to know about that type of matter creation.
    "That which does not grow falls into decay."

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  6. #6
    I AM A FEDERAL AGENT! Lestov16's Avatar
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    Within the confines of the laws of physics as we know them, particles can be created either by converting matter into energy or energy into matter (the energy-to-matter takes a lot of energy, as in 1 kg requires 4 x 10^ J of energy ! ; this need for high energies is why matter particles are created in gamma ray bursts (the most powerful lightwaves in the EM spectrum) and other high energy locations)
    If one were to be able to convert energy into matter, they would require a lot of energy.


    But not infinite.


    What Transcient Guest is referring to (I presume) is particle exnihilation, literally creation from nothing. Basically, this character would have to be an outright reality warper (at least on a universal scale), as they would have to defy at least the laws of physics to produce this effect. They would not be the most powerful reality warpers, as more powerful ones can affect mathematics and logic. But they would still be pretty much viewed by a God by us. they would also make Dr. Manhattan their bitch.


    The reason is because to exnihilate a single particle requires infinite energy. This can be concluded because one would literally be taking 1 out of 0, or 1/0, which literally equates to 1 x 10^∞, or simply, infinity. This would automatically mean that if they could exnihilate one particle, they can exnihilate infinite particles. Since particles=energy, one could generate truly infinite energy.

    Like I said, one would either have to be siphoning this infinite energy from an extradimensional hyperspace, or they would have to be an outright reality warper would can rewrite the laws of physics.

  7. #7
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarBeyondC View Post
    Unless matter manipulation guy is ludicrously inefficient, creation of (non-fictitious) matter should always require more energy than needed to manipulate or destroy said matter. So from the standpoint of who should have more energy / power to throw around, matter creation guy is superior.
    Unless creation is litteral, in which case he's not requiring energy at all given how much of it he's yanking out of nowhere all the time.
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    I AM A FEDERAL AGENT! Lestov16's Avatar
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    No matter what, he'd still be generating infinite energy (more than the matter manipulator could manipulate in their wildest dreams), because, as I stated, they'd be needing to get 1 out of 0, or 1/0, is equivalent to infinity.

  9. #9
    Fists of God Chou Blaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegalith View Post
    Unless creation is litteral, in which case he's not requiring energy at all given how much of it he's yanking out of nowhere all the time.
    Yeah, it depends on the "act" of "creation."

    There are many different ones, Hell one of them is not creating at all but "summoning" said matter/energy from ANOTHER SOURCE ALL TOGETHER.

    But yeah, matter creation beings tend to be on the omnipotent scale for a "good" reason.

    And yeah, babies are really bad at matter creation.

  10. #10
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Lestov, you wouldn't need infinite energy when drawing from an extradimensional energy source because you'd have energy right there in your extradimensional energy source.

    In fact, any situation in which you have access to infinite energy it would be far more efficient to simply convert the required volume of energy into matter. Matter is simply structured energy in the first place after all.
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  11. #11
    Veteran Member Holy Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Transient Guest View Post
    Is matter creation guy more powerful than matter manipulation man?
    I'd say creation is more powerful that manipulation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Omegalith View Post
    Unless creation is litteral, in which case he's not requiring energy at all given how much of it he's yanking out of nowhere all the time.
    Yeah, pure creation is crazy.

  12. #12
    I AM A FEDERAL AGENT! Lestov16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegalith View Post
    Lestov, you wouldn't need infinite energy when drawing from an extradimensional energy source because you'd have energy right there in your extradimensional energy source.

    In fact, any situation in which you have access to infinite energy it would be far more efficient to simply convert the required volume of energy into matter. Matter is simply structured energy in the first place after all.
    I want to make sure I am comprehending this correctly. Is "creating a table out of energy" the same as rearranging the quarks, gluons (which are the packets of energy of the "strong nuclear force" which holds together quarks, and more importantly protons and neutrons, and is thus the reason why matter has so much energy), and electrons in the surrounding air and constructing a table from the elementary particle up, or is it something different?

  13. #13
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lestov16 View Post
    I want to make sure I am comprehending this correctly. Is "creating a table out of energy" the same as rearranging the quarks, gluons (which are the packets of energy of the "strong nuclear force" which holds together quarks, and more importantly protons and neutrons, and is thus the reason why matter has so much energy), and electrons in the surrounding air and constructing a table from the elementary particle up, or is it something different?

    Strictly speaking, it makes no real sense that a matter manipulator couldn't also perform the much simpler feat of manipulating uncompressed, vastly less complex quantities of what we normally call energy.

    But hey, fiction.
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  14. #14
    I AM A FEDERAL AGENT! Lestov16's Avatar
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    Isn't the gluon a quanta of energy? Same as the photon and graviton. If not, what is an energy quanta called?

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