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  1. #91
    My Opinion > Your Opinion maxpower00044's Avatar
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    At this point, Batman should just sit in a chair in the Batcave, and do nothing. Haha

  2. #92
    Senior Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    This thread has reminded me of something similar which I wrote a long time ago and hadn't looked at in years! When I Googled, I found a copy was still right here on this site, so all that follows is quoted from something I posted on this forum as the start of its own thread way back in 2007, and as you will see, a lot of that was being quoted from way, way back in 2004! (I've done some minor editing, but that's it.)


    _________________________________________________


    Recipe for a Big Batman Epic (2nd Draft)

    As near as I can recall, three years after the fact, when I first wrote this I tried to "boil down" such previous Batman epics as the "Knightfall" and "Knightquest" and "Knightsend" trilogy, "The Long Halloween" and "Dark Victory," "No Man's Land," the combo of "Bruce Wayne: Murderer?" and "Bruce Wayne: Fugitive," "Hush," various movies, and probably other "epics" that I'm forgetting at the moment. Then I took what I regarded as "essential ingredients" and wrote them down in my Recipe. Today I've added a few extra items at the end.


    The Recipe from 2004

    01. Past Continuity is Expendable. If you aren't retconning somebody else's story, you aren't trying hard enough!

    02. Let's have some flashback scenes to Bruce Wayne's happy childhood with his parents, just to remind everyone of how saintly they were -- you know, in case the readers' memories are so terrible that they've somehow forgotten all about that since the last story that had lots of childhood flashbacks?

    03. Might be a good idea to have someone learn Batman's secret identity and put some extra suspense and confusion in his life. That's never been done before, right?

    04. Romantic sparks are flying -- preferably between Bruce and Selina, and/or Batman and Catwoman -- but in the end it doesn't go anywhere. Got to preserve that Sacred Status Quo with Bruce Wayne as Gotham's most eligible bachelor, right?

    05. For some reason that we probably won't bother to explain, lots and lots of Batman's old foes are making him effectively run a gauntlet before he can have a showdown with this epic's Master Villain. You may want to dust off a few foes that haven't been used lately to make your Epic stand out. (How long has it been since we saw him fight Captain Stingaree, The Spook, The Snowman, or Brains Beldon, anyway?)

    06. The guy who will later turn out to be the Master Villain dies in the middle of the story, or so we are told and so Batman believes.

    07. Batman being the brilliant detective that he is, he doesn't have a clue who the Master Villain really is or what he's all about until the guy takes pity on him and spells it out for him in detail in a face-to-face confrontation.

    08. Even after the Master Villain takes pity on him and tells him, intelligent and skeptical readers still feel there are enough inconsistencies and ambiguities that Batman may not have gotten the full story on "Whodunit" and "Why did they do it?"

    09. Be sure to have someone get Mind-Controlled somehow so they do things they normally would never do. Poison Ivy is a good plot device here, but don't forget the Mad Hatter, or a variety of villains who aren't normally Bat-villains but could make a guest appearance for the occasion. And don't vampires have hypnotic powers too?

    10. Ideally, someone should die. Someone longtime readers will recognize. Even if this Someone hasn't appeared in a Bat-title in years, it's all right to bring him or her back just long enough for that person to quickly become a corpse.

    11. Failing that, put someone in traction, or have her mentally regress to her childhood and stay there for the next several years, or something along those lines.

    12. No matter how bad things get in Gotham City, Batman would never dream of calling up his buddies in the JLA and asking for help in order to keep the entire city from burning down or whatever. Ditto for the Outsiders. And even though he almost always has at least one of his proteges currently hanging out with Young Justice or the latest version of the Titans or whomever, he'll adamantly refuse to ask them for help, either.

    13. Remember to stretch the whole thing out to at least 12 or 13 installments. Maybe a heck of a lot longer! Stories that only last 1 (or 2, or 3, or 4) issues are for sissies who lack ambition.


    The Extra Ingredients -- added in 2007

    14. Have one of Batman's current or former trainees go bad all of a sudden. It lets Batman experience the shock of betrayal, the worry of how to beat someone who already knows all his favorite tricks . . .

    15. Instead of killing off an old member of the supporting cast, bring one of the dead ones back to life! (Or if you want to go for a double-whammy, do both!)

    16. Giving Batman some severe injuries, potentially crippling or even life-threatening, is good for a little suspense. It may force him to slow down, catch his breath, "wake up and smell the coffee," rethink his general attitude, etc. (Even though the reader knows he'll make a complete recovery eventually.) This can be very useful in setting the stage for the final ingredient on our list:

    17. "The Epiphany." All of a sudden a great light dawns on Our Hero -- perhaps he's recently been just a tad excessive in his hard-nosed, grim-and-gritty, strict disciplinarian, professionally paranoid, unrealistically perfectionist, manipulative, and generally obnoxious attitude toward the allies, sidekicks, support staff, etc., whom he knows perfectly well all love him like a brother (or like a father-figure, or at least like a cranky old uncle with a heart of gold, or however they perceive him) . . . and maybe it's time for him to "turn over a new leaf" and "lighten up a little" and "open up a bit more" to his loved ones and so forth!

    Note: This Epiphany will last at least a month or two after the epic is over, but then Batman can backslide into the snarly attitude he's so often had in the Post-Crisis era, so that someone else can write another story arc in which he has his Epiphany all over again, and decides he ought to lighten up and be a bit more sensitive and all that, and then he'll backslide from that and go back to his old ways so that even later he can suddenly realize . . . you get the idea!

    Just remember that wise old French saying: "The more things change, the more they stay the same."
    Last edited by Lorendiac; 02-01-2013 at 10:53 AM.

  3. #93

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    Great post Lorendiac
    "It is wrong to assume that art needs the spectator in order to be. The film runs on without any eyes. The spectator cannot exist without it. It ensures his existence." -- James Douglas Morrison

  4. #94
    Senior Member LEADER DESSLOK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorendiac View Post
    This thread has reminded me of something similar which I wrote a long time ago and hadn't looked at in years!...

    ...17. "The Epiphany." All of a sudden a great light dawns on Our Hero -- perhaps he's recently been just a tad excessive in his hard-nosed, grim-and-gritty, strict disciplinarian, professionally paranoid, unrealistically perfectionist, manipulative, and generally obnoxious attitude toward the allies, sidekicks, support staff, etc., whom he knows perfectly well all love him like a brother (or like a father-figure, or at least like a cranky old uncle with a heart of gold, or however they perceive him) . . . and maybe it's time for him to "turn over a new leaf" and "lighten up a little" and "open up a bit more" to his loved ones and so forth!

    Note: This Epiphany will last at least a month or two after the epic is over, but then Batman can backslide into the snarly attitude he's so often had in the Post-Crisis era, so that someone else can write another story arc in which he has his Epiphany all over again, and decides he ought to lighten up and be a bit more sensitive and all that, and then he'll backslide from that and go back to his old ways so that even later he can suddenly realize . . . you get the idea!

    Just remember that wise old French saying: "The more things change, the more they stay the same." :wink:
    I don't know how anyone can top these, Good luck to anyone who tries! THIS WAS HILARIOUS! I hope somebody can come up with something similar for SPIDER-MAN, because that series has gone in more circles than the INDIANAPOLIS 500!
    Last edited by LEADER DESSLOK; 02-02-2013 at 03:50 PM.
    FAV Comics: Lil' ABNER, DICK TRACY, BATMAN, UNCLE SCROOGE, KAMUI, TOMB OF DRACULA, THE MIGHTY THOR by LEE\KIRBY, WONDER WOMAN by PEREZ\KAREN BERGER, AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 1-206 and EC COMICS!

  5. #95
    Totally harmless RubberLotus's Avatar
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    Thirding (or fourthing?) "Penguin gets his ass kicked by Batman". Perhaps extend it to "Penguin gets his ass kicked by anyone who we want to show is a badass".

    I started checking out when drunken, delusional Harvey Bullock got on that bandwagon.

  6. #96
    Junior Member Mistah K88's Avatar
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    As many mentioned, "Wayne IS the mask" is one that we have seen countless times.

    Also, the never ending battle between Batman and Joker. It's gotten a bit tiresome...especially when the Joker tends to fill graveyards whenever he gets out. Even it it isn't Batman who kills him, it's kind of hard to believe that the whole city wouldn't settle for his death.
    Batman: No, one more punch will kill you; and I won't kill you.
    Joker: That somehow means I win! I go to jail, escape, kill people,go to jail! Rinse and repeat!

    Villains in general having to become dark and edgy and murder people as a right of passage in Gotham. Remember when master criminals used to steal things too? Or screw up people's lives without having a massive body count? I remember Batman telling someone that Polka Dot Man killed people with polka dots...SERIOUSLY?

  7. #97
    Junior Member theDarkJAww13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatalwish View Post
    Over-zealous/ambitious writers who try to write outlandish explanations for things that are better left unexplained, i.e.: Joker Origins, Wayne Murder Conspiracies, etc.
    Haha wonder who it is you're talking about...

    This is a thread about Batman cliches and which ones you'd rather not see in the books - nothing to do with one specific writer.

  8. #98

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    Batman being a dick.
    The Joker.
    An issue ends with Batman in trouble with no way out, then the next issue begins with him pulling something out of his belt we've never seen before and he saves himself in the nick of time. - This one really pisses me off.
    Last edited by net06; 02-03-2013 at 01:52 AM.
    Batgirl, Superman/Wonder Woman, Detective Comics, Worlds Finest, Batman/Superman, The Movement, Astro City, Kick Ass 3, Miracle Man, Nightcrawler, Red Sonja, The Star Wars, Sandman: Overture, The Maxx

  9. #99
    Member ILoveVibe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebkoX View Post
    Joker poisons Gotham.
    He is always giving out the bad extacy...

  10. #100
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by net06 View Post
    An issue ends with Batman in trouble with no way out, then the next issue begins with him pulling something out of his belt we've never seen before and he saves himself in the nick of time. - This one really pisses me off.
    Not sure if I have actually ever seen that even once in a comic. Lots of times in the old Adam West series though.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  11. #101

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    "I don't have any friends." - Batman

  12. #102

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    That's the way it should be

  13. #103
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Hasn't been that way since 1940...
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Not sure if I have actually ever seen that even once in a comic. Lots of times in the old Adam West series though.
    In detective comics 12 or so when he was fighting radioactive man, and a couple of months ago when Harley locked him in the joker acid tank thing.
    Batgirl, Superman/Wonder Woman, Detective Comics, Worlds Finest, Batman/Superman, The Movement, Astro City, Kick Ass 3, Miracle Man, Nightcrawler, Red Sonja, The Star Wars, Sandman: Overture, The Maxx

  15. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughNTumble View Post
    writers writing bruce like a sociopathic jackass while still having his sidekicks admire and stick by him

    joker taking over arkham
    This exactly. I get so tied of Batman being such a dick to his allies. I could barely read War Games because he was such a prick to Oracle. I wish they'd write his personality more like the Batman the Animated Series version which imo is the best interpretation of Batman.

    Also villains breaking out of Arkham. That place has the worst security ever.
    Last edited by screaming skull; 02-04-2013 at 12:35 AM.

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