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  1. #16
    Lurkish Member Captain Jibberish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Sorry it wasn't clear for you.

    In any case, the reason that the vast majority of humans live through great white (and all) shark attacks is that they don't like how we taste. In the specific case of great whites, attacks on humans are almost always perpetrated by juveniles - they confuse a surfer for a sea lion and strike. But against everything sizable, the great white attack style is to approach from below, where their coloration makes them nearly invisible, and then to charge their target on the surface, making one strike to both taste and wound. They then circle until the prey is found to be both tasty (that's immediate, of course) and significantly weakened enough that they stop posing a threat, usually due to blood loss. Humans are not tasty. Humans struck by Whites often save themselves, many are saved by others, but in nearly all cases, the shark doesn't make a second strike. When humans die due to great white attacks, it is typically the result drowning caused by injuries/blood loss or just the blood loss in a situation where they can't save themselves. The sharks almost never "eat" a human.

    Certain, more omnivorous types, like tigers (though human attacks are very rare with tigers), and certain types extremely susceptible to frenzy, like types of reef and bull sharks, are more likely to try to finish the job themselves. That said, shark attacks are both rare and rarely fatal in any case.
    Sorry, I was only confused about the iron based blood comment. I've been a shark enthusiast since I was eight years old, I understand how White Sharks hunt, and that shark attacks are rare.

    As for white sharks vs dolphins, I think it's probably similar to cougars vs grey wolves. White Sharks prey on individual dolphins on occasion. It's not really a contest one on one. But dolphins travel in pods, while White Sharks are loners. Same thing with couger vs wolf. An adult cougar would stomp all over an individual wolf, but wolves travel in packs. A cougar that sees a single wolf knows there are most likely more hanging around somewhere, so it leaves before trouble starts.

  2. #17
    DOOM DEMANDS MORE NACHOS!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jibberish View Post
    As for white sharks vs dolphins, I think it's probably similar to cougars vs grey wolves. White Sharks prey on individual dolphins on occasion. It's not really a contest one on one. But dolphins travel in pods, while White Sharks are loners. Same thing with couger vs wolf. An adult cougar would stomp all over an individual wolf, but wolves travel in packs. A cougar that sees a single wolf knows there are most likely more hanging around somewhere, so it leaves before trouble starts.
    Pretty much this - Dolphins pretty much never travel solo, whereas great whites are solitary beasties.

  3. #18
    Status Quo Cowards Thanos Classic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    I'm sorry, but this is one of the dumbest threads ever.

    A gauntlet of creatures that a human would have absolutely no way of beating even if they were fighting on an equal footing. Only it's not an equal footing, because it's an environment the creatures are perfectly at home in, whereas the human would be painfully slow, unable to breathe, effectively blind and being crushed to death.
    Is this where I reply with a "your mama could breath fine joke"? it's funny because it makes no sense!

    okay, well, maybe having people instantly transported underwater was a mistake. but I doubt someone like batman or cap could realistically fight for too long if they had to first free dive over 2000 feet to get to their location.

    so...i'll go with what big said about them somehow being okay after transportation.

    I think batman or wolverine would have the best chance at clearing. both of them have standard equipment that should work well. I think bruce could make it to the whale, whereas wolverine might even clear.
    Last edited by Thanos Classic; 01-28-2013 at 03:45 PM.
    Batman should call Superman or Wonderwoman to put an end to Crime in Gotham Forever. It'd only take about 3 minutes...

  4. #19
    Status Quo Cowards Thanos Classic's Avatar
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    oh and I did mean Megalodon when referring toking of the seas...http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/tetrap.../megalodon.htm
    Batman should call Superman or Wonderwoman to put an end to Crime in Gotham Forever. It'd only take about 3 minutes...

  5. #20
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    1: Wolverine is not a Peak Human.

    2: Adamantium Boat Anchor with a bit of flesh attached.
    A Flock of Sheep.
    A Pack of Wolves.
    An Inconvenience of Heroes.

  6. #21
    Fists of God Chou Blaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becoming An Anthropologist View Post
    oh and I did mean Megalodon when referring toking of the seas...http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/tetrap.../megalodon.htm

    ......... There is no peak human (Even comic standard) unless armed with "serious fire power" (That defeats the point.) has the "chance" to contend with a damn Megalodon, isnce after all, they ate WHALES.

  7. #22
    Lurkish Member Captain Jibberish's Avatar
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    There is no way an actual peak human character is taking any of these fights, at 2200 feet or at some kind of even playing field shallow water encounter.
    Great White Sharks might decide to leave a human alone after getting a taste and finding it isn't it's preferred prey, but default settings for rumbles includes bloodlust, right? There is no way an unarmed man is keeping a bloodlusted Great White Shark from shredding him to pieces. And this fight is against three of them? Somebody with a knife might be able to keep one at bay, but the other two will just rip them apart.

    A Giant Squid is well, a giant animal. They fight freakin Sperm whales for their lives. Unless this fight takes place in very shallow water, the squid is going to take a man apart.

    A 160 ton blue whale could trivially destroy a human without even meaning to. And if it's a bloodlusted 160 ton blue whale, it will. Nothing a human could do to the thing, even if you gave them a knife.

    100 Dolphins is horrible overkill. That's basically a small army of killers in their own environment against a single individual taken out of theirs. Two or three dolphins would take this easily enough.

    Against a Megalodon, a man in a speedboat armed with a harpoon gun would be completely screwed. And you want to put him unarmed, and under 2200 feet of water? A fat guy vs a cheese-it would be a fairer fight.
    Last edited by Captain Jibberish; 01-28-2013 at 08:15 PM.

  8. #23
    Infiltrator Cthulhu_of_R'yleh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jibberish View Post
    There is no way an actual peak human character is taking any of these fights, at 2200 feet or at some kind of even playing field shallow water encounter.
    Great White Sharks might decide to leave a human alone after getting a taste and finding it isn't it's preferred prey, but default settings for rumbles includes bloodlust, right? There is no way an unarmed man is keeping a bloodlusted Great White Shark from shredding them to pieces. And this fight is against three of them? Somebody with a knife might be able to keep one at bay, but the other two will just rip them apart.

    A Giant Squid is well, a giant animal. They fight freakin Sperm whales for their lives. Unless this fight takes place in very shallow water, the squid is going to take a man apart.

    A 160 ton blue whale could trivially destroy a human without even meaning to. And if it's a bloodlusted 160 ton blue whale, it will. Nothing a human could do to the thing, even if you gave them a knife.

    100 Dolphins is horrible overkill. That's basically a small army of killers in their own environment against a single individual taken out of theirs. Two or three dolphins would take this easily enough.

    Against a Megalodon, a man in a speedboat armed with a harpoon gun would be completely screwed. And you want to put him unarmed, and under 2200 feet of water? A fat guy vs a cheese-it would be a fairer fight.
    And to add to this;

    Since I know now that us no one is actually like Kevin Costner from Waterworld, (damn you Hollywood,)
    Beyond 100 feet (30 meters), nitrogen narcosis affects someone's ability to think and at 150 feet (46 meters), they may become dizzy. Once a diver reaches 250+ feet (76+ meters), they are considered useless and become a safety hazard to themselves and people around them.
    Since our 'peak' human needs to be able to breathe to use the 'special breathing techniques' he's pretty much dead as soon as he gets down there.
    Armored Frame Division #27: Starlancer Flight - Roland Vance Xel'Tais

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'yleh View Post
    Since our 'peak' human needs to be able to breathe to use the 'special breathing techniques' he's pretty much dead as soon as he gets down there.
    Read my first reply and then BAA's response on this page. I specifically stated that the human just flat out dies if instantly transported there with no special allowances for the pressure. One of those, as mentioned, was gas diffusion in the blood. Nitrogen narcosis is the LEAST of those problems when you're talking 2200 feet below sea level. Compression would squish you first, but nitrogen embolisms or oxygen toxicity would kill you MUCH more quickly than narcosis would take you down.

    To an earlier post:

    Wolverine is also not strictly "CBPH" - he's that for reactions and speed, more or less, but he's got powers that would make him a tough fight here. Specifically, his skeleton protects him from insta-kills, and his healing factor deals with most damage that these foes can dish, and his claws are absolutely sufficient to be lethal against these foes. He can also see down there, hear enough to vaguely echolocate in water (I imagine), and certainly track by smell in a liquid medium.

    I don't really take as "real" all of these new stories of Wolverine insta-dying in water. Swimming was never a problem for him over the first 30 years of publication, I have no idea why suddenly we'd take it as canon that he just "ploof" drowns in water, or that he can't swim, when he's done plenty of swimming over his history.

  10. #25
    Infiltrator Cthulhu_of_R'yleh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Read my first reply and then BAA's response on this page. I specifically stated that the human just flat out dies if instantly transported there with no special allowances for the pressure. One of those, as mentioned, was gas diffusion in the blood. Nitrogen narcosis is the LEAST of those problems when you're talking 2200 feet below sea level. Compression would squish you first, but nitrogen embolisms or oxygen toxicity would kill you MUCH more quickly than narcosis would take you down.

    To an earlier post:

    Wolverine is also not strictly "CBPH" - he's that for reactions and speed, more or less, but he's got powers that would make him a tough fight here. Specifically, his skeleton protects him from insta-kills, and his healing factor deals with most damage that these foes can dish, and his claws are absolutely sufficient to be lethal against these foes. He can also see down there, hear enough to vaguely echolocate in water (I imagine), and certainly track by smell in a liquid medium.

    I don't really take as "real" all of these new stories of Wolverine insta-dying in water. Swimming was never a problem for him over the first 30 years of publication, I have no idea why suddenly we'd take it as canon that he just "ploof" drowns in water, or that he can't swim, when he's done plenty of swimming over his history.
    Well, that pretty much clinches it then.

    Peak man is screwed from go. Hooray!
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  11. #26
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becoming An Anthropologist View Post
    Is this where I reply with a "your mama could breath fine joke"? it's funny because it makes no sense!

    okay, well, maybe having people instantly transported underwater was a mistake. but I doubt someone like batman or cap could realistically fight for too long if they had to first free dive over 2000 feet to get to their location.

    so...i'll go with what big said about them somehow being okay after transportation.

    I think batman or wolverine would have the best chance at clearing. both of them have standard equipment that should work well. I think bruce could make it to the whale, whereas wolverine might even clear.
    Firstly, I apologise for the bluntness of the post you were replying to. Too blunt, and too rude. So I'm sorry about that.

    Secondly though, it's not the amount of time and energy it would take to dive to those levels that matters here. I mean... it would be a factor... if it weren't that it pales in comparison to the facts that:

    a) Even if they could get there in reasonable fighting fitness, the hostility of the environment when they DID get there would kill them,

    and b) They have no reasonable way of defeating the animals you've put them up against.

    It's a suicide match for the CBPH guys. Just a matter of what kills them first.
    Yes, I know the voices aren't real. But they do have some VERY good ideas....

  12. #27
    Power with girl is better Powerboy's Avatar
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    I suspect the Great White (which I've seen on film) is slow enough that, even in water, they could evade it and go for the eyes. The squid might hold them up long enough for breathing to be an issue. I don't see them getting past a hundred dolphins fast enough unless they've got equipment that would take them out en masse.

    Okay, now, first of all, they die from the pressure without time to slowly adapt to the pressure in stages ie. going from the surface to 2200 feet.

    Secondly, you cannot come up from depth without taking your time. Otherwise you get the bends and die. I doubt even a CBPH could hold his breath for the amount of time it would take to rise from that depth. I don't know the specifics but I'm guessing well over an hour at the very least.

    Then there's nitrogen narcosis aka "rapture of the deep". At those depths without preparation and possibility even with it, the brain goes wonky and people get delusional.

    I realize that, in the spirit of the thread, those things were probably meant to be ignored. But a generic CBPH is hard to say. Batman might have something to dissuade a hundred dolphins while Cap may not. I do picture Batman facing the dolphins and thinking, "I'm hosed. I can't intimidate them by yelling, "I'm the goddam Batman".

  13. #28
    Your Ice Cream Man Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Batman can hold his breath for like three and half minutes. That's not enough time to guarantee killing any one of these animals, much less multiples.

  14. #29
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    It's just occurred to me that Batman's repellant sprays would probably only be useful above the surface. Which might be good for the dolphins and maybe the blue whale, but the others are just ridiculous. Giant squid aren't known for their tendency to pop up for a sun-tan.

    But anyway, if he had a Megaladon-spray, that would be prep beyond prep.
    Yes, I know the voices aren't real. But they do have some VERY good ideas....

  15. #30
    Status Quo Cowards Thanos Classic's Avatar
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    Couple of things...

    the peak humans or weaker mostly won't be unarmed. Steve Rogers, Bruce Wayne, Oliver, Wolverine, Angelus, etc. And yeah, I do consider guys like wolverine being part of this. Basically, anyone who would fight steve or batman reasonably even is fair game as far as I'm concerned. Sure they are not peak human in the literal sense, but wtv.

    2200 feet might have been too much. However, on the program the record for a male diver was 750 feet. So I'd figure a comic book guy like Steve wold be able to go deeper easily enough. In any case, it was an oversight. The point of the rumbles is for them to fight creatures in the water. So shallow water... or all these instant death affects put on hold.

    Like big said, the animals have their mannerism and such one needs to take into account. Guys like Batman and Steve could use their wits in addition to their equipment. Hell, maybe a viable strategy would be to get swallowed by the blue whale or Megaladon... and then use sonics...

    Last...

    why would the goddamn batman doing anything but one shot dolphins with pressure point strikes
    Last edited by Thanos Classic; 01-30-2013 at 06:52 PM.
    Batman should call Superman or Wonderwoman to put an end to Crime in Gotham Forever. It'd only take about 3 minutes...

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