Dick Grayson - A Hero's Fall Into Irrelevance or A New Defining Direction?

[colossus34]

Why are people obsessed with Dick's prior relationships? Obviously everything has been rebooted and it'll take a few years to reestablish all his old connections. Plus he can be friends with everyone and their grandmother and it wont matter if he always made to look like a fool.

What should be bothering everyone is how nightwing is being written as a chump and 2nd rate all over again. Always jobbing and being made to look like a completely incompotent superhero.

[Mr. Holmes]

Why are people obsessed with Dick's prior relationships? Obviously everything has been rebooted and it'll take a few years to reestablish all his old connections. Plus he can be friends with everyone and their grandmother and it wont matter if he always made to look like a fool.

What should be bothering everyone is how nightwing is being written as a chump and 2nd rate all over again. Always jobbing and being made to look like a completely incompotent superhero.

Exactly. It's because people are attached to the old stories and how Nightwing's relations were then, but ultimately, that doesn't inherently affect what can be done with the carte blanche status New 52 leaves Nightwing. The current writing/execution is the problem, not the lack of what was in the past.

[Dick_Wingnut]

That would be fine if we were given a true tabula rasa where Dick was Robin again for the first time, and we got to relive some reinterpretation of the events and relationships that made him who he ended up becoming. We were instead handed a tabula crapa of truncated history and diminished significance. The history of a character is what molds who he is today, not to mention it provides the foundation that a writer can work with, Dick's was so deep and interesting that it now bolsters 3 books.

[Godlike13]

People like seeing Dick interact with other characters, but u know its gonna be hard to reestablish his old connections when their using those connections to establish other characters. And to say that it doesn't inherently affect what can be done with the "carte blanche" status New 52 leaves Nightwing isn't true, because well to say the New 52 left him with a freedom to act is pretty much just bullshit. New 52 left him with voids, restrictions, and a lessened status and a lessened overall foundation even. Now thats not to say the current writing/execution isn't a problem, because it certainly isn't helping much, and quite frankly just not really doing enough to fill those voids, or explore new avenues, or even rebuild his status. It just hasn't really done a very good job of building him a new foundation. Its been serviceable, but i think its pretty clear some of us want more than just serviceable. At the same time though its not that hard to understand why people care about his prior relationships, status, and what have you. Not all of us have a switch we can just flip to make us stop caring about this or that.

That would be fine if we were given a true tabula rasa where Dick was Robin again for the first time, and we got to relive some reinterpretation of the events and relationships that made him who he ended up becoming. We were instead handed a tabula crapa of truncated history and diminished significance. The history of a character is what molds who he is today, not to mention it provides the foundation that a writer can work with, Dick's was so deep and interesting that it now bolsters 3 books.

Well said.

[Mr. Holmes]

That would be fine if we were given a true tabula rasa where Dick was Robin again for the first time, and we got to relive some reinterpretation of the events and relationships that made him who he ended up becoming. We were instead handed a tabula crapa of truncated history and diminished significance. The history of a character is what molds who he is today, not to mention it provides the foundation that a writer can work with, Dick's was so deep and interesting that it now bolsters 3 books.

The problem isn't what happened to history, it's that Higgins (or editorial) haven't added anything in return. Technically, his tenure as Batman happened. But it sure doesn't reflect what's going on. So it works both ways.

[Godlike13]

The problem is both. What has happened to his history, connections, and status, and that Higgins (or editorial) haven't really added anything to compensate. Leaving some of us just wanting.

[Badou]

Why are people obsessed with Dick's prior relationships? Obviously everything has been rebooted and it'll take a few years to reestablish all his old connections. Plus he can be friends with everyone and their grandmother and it wont matter if he always made to look like a fool.

What should be bothering everyone is how nightwing is being written as a chump and 2nd rate all over again. Always jobbing and being made to look like a completely incompotent superhero.

I think you are missing the point. In my opinion one of the reason he has been written like a 2nd rate Batman is that he has no sense of identity outside Batman's shadow. None. That history that you are discounting is what gave him an identity outside Batman and removing it was damaging to the character. The biggest difference between Dick and Bruce is how personable Dick is and how he forms such close relationships to people/other heroes and that is something we really haven't seen. So it is a large part of the character that we haven't seen in play yet, or is no longer there, and it does lessen the character.

Sure, I am biased because all of those close bonds and friendships the character had was one of the big reasons why I liked the character, especially with how they showcased his leaderships skills, and seeing those bonds and old stories being given to other heroes is disheartening (which is going to make it difficult to reestablish them), but if they would have replace them with something else then I could have at least understood what they were doing. I mean before the reboot when he was forming his own JL team and how he called on all the heroes he had these connections with to help him, like Donna and Jade, I really liked that. Now I don't really know who he would call on and it is a weird position to be in.

The problem isn't what happened to history, it's that Higgins (or editorial) haven't added anything in return. Technically, his tenure as Batman happened. But it sure doesn't reflect what's going on. So it works both ways.

Yeah, both are a problem. Removing the history is a problem and then not adding something in return is not fixing the problem. Though I'd like to see Higging address it in his book and us not have to rely on Outlaws or Batwoman for bits and pieces, but Higgins doesn't seem that interested in it at all. He is finally writing an arc without having Synder to lean on so we will see how good he actually is, but I am not that confident. Plus I bet in less than a year Dick's time as Batman will be completely thrown out honestly.

I'm tempted to want Lobdell to take over even, and you know how much I don't like Lobdell. That way at least he could tell the story of how he became Nightwing and tie in the Superman connection to the Nightwing name.

[Conway]

Okay since the thread was already here:
This week Lobdell made Tim closest to Jason, taking away most of Dick's relationship with Tim in one sentence.

I did remember that Batwing has a lot of respect for NW and considered him equal to The Bat. I know some of that happened in Inc before the reboot, but the only reason we forget it is that David is so far removed from the Bat-Fam.

[Punter23]

Okay since the thread was already here:
This week Lobdell made Tim closest to Jason, taking away most of Dick's relationship with Tim in one sentence.

I did remember that Batwing has a lot of respect for NW and considered him equal to The Bat. I know some of that happened in Inc before the reboot, but the only reason we forget it is that David is so far removed from the Bat-Fam.

We haven't see Tim and Dick interact that much yet, we can't say that yet.

[Mr. Holmes]

I stand by what I said, I don't think Nightwing's past is essential to making him work in the present. I realize you guys don't want to lose those stories, and I understand that though.

[Godlike13]

Oh they could still make Nightwing work in the present, i mean u can just look a Inc and see that. If they gave us more of that Nightwing i think there certainly would be less bitterness.

Now again, i like that Higgins is gonna be going for a definitive Nightwing story, i like seeing someone being ambitious with Nightwing, so i like that he's at least is going to be trying to do something big with Nightwing. Well see though. So far the series, while its had its moments, has been rather frustrating. I think Booth coming on is good thing, and the return of the fingerstripes + arm spikes is a nice treat (i do like the new costume), but its gonna be interesting to see if Higgins can deliver.